[squeak-dev] Re: worst crash yet trying to load stuff from Packages Universe in 3.10.2....

Keith Hodges keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk Wed Dec 17 05:05:32 UTC 2008

Hi Keith,

Puck: "Shazaam, he's up early." Me: Thanks for the quick reply.

Jerome Peace wrote:

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[squeak-dev] Re: worst crash yet trying to load stuff from Packages Universe in 3.10.2.... Keith Hodges keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk

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Wed Dec 17 02:17:56 UTC 2008

Dear Greg,

some of us have spent a lot of time trying to improve things in work that has been made available SINCE 3.10's release.

However you are basically ignoring what people are trying to tell you, and insist on being negative and non-constructive.

There is something that Shaw said about progress and the unreasonable man: http://www.elise.com/quotes/quotes/shawquotes.htm

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So I wont be replying any further.

Puck points out that Greg is no more unreasonable than you or I. Just a little more ornery.

Don't take this as a call to action for you personally. I figure you are doing quite a lot and maybe are at even your energetic limit of service.

What's being called for here is a recruitment of resources (i.e. others to do the testing). And the call to conscience to listen to the result and live up to high standards. All of these will improve the community.

And Greg is starting to come up with realistic suggestions to get to his unrealistic ideals.

Can we find a box big enough and strong enough to hold an entire universe or two? Can you or someone else write a script to load the guru's hot-dog?* Can we get someone different, new, fresh, to do the periodic and episodic testing on a regular enough basis?

Can we get someone in authority to care longly and strongly enough about this to watch over it and guide it to see that it happens and keeps happening?

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We are putting the infrastructure in place to do exactly this kind of testing in an automated fashion. I have a machine spare with a new 160Gb of HD spare for it.

If you are putting yourself or even Matthew in the critical path for this happening, are you also creating a bottleneck? We also need others with similar facilities to go beyond the limit of time and service you and Matthew can put in. I'm talking about fresh blood here.

I know it is easier to choose to do what is within your personal control. All I am saying is that might not be the only way or the best way to go.

Leave time for doing what you alone can do best. Offload the tasks that another member of the community can do easily. (Once trained). If we are to get to where we wish to go we will have to get a lot of folks to pull in the right direction. And give them the encouragement they need.

"All" that is needed is to...

A) have all packages loading tested relative to an Image with a certain base functionality (i.e. LevelPlayingField.)

Okay. That's 3.10.3 onward and the other branches that wish to join the LPF movement. Seems to me we are there with the ftp release you just made.

B) Fix dependencies in Sake/Packages as a community effort.

Huh? Actually this sounds reasonable. What do you mean by it? How is it to be accomplished? When do you teach the community the techniques involved?

and away we shall go.

Keith