+1

Am 29.06.2022 um 12:59 schrieb Thiede, Christoph:

Hi Marcel, hi all,

thank you for the call! This seems to be an important issue and it would really be a pity if such a great project failed because of something as mundane as money.

...

What is needed?

Could you maybe elaborate further on *how much* will actually be needed in total?

I do not intend to mistrust anyone, but I think that some people might be more motivated to donate if there was more transparency regarding the *actual* or *planned spendings* as well as the *received donations.* No fancy dashboard required, but a few rough numbers once per year would be great. Apparently, you can get a simple Hetzner server forup to $600/year -so for what do we need multiple thousands of dollars each year? Will the amount of donations have a direct impact on the time my image needs to update etc.? And could there be someroom for significant financial optimizations, for instance in the Monticello infrastructure? :-)

...

Fortunately, our low-cost target, Hetzner, looks very promising to be

donation-backed for the time to come.

For clarification: Does Hetzner provide a similar no-cost support option to Rackspace or are you talking about an extrapolation of the donations that squeak.org has received in the past? :-)

Best, Christoph

---

*Von:* Squeak-dev squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org im Auftrag von Taeumel, Marcel *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 29. Juni 2022 11:07:11 *An:* squeak-dev *Betreff:* [squeak-dev] Call for Donation | Squeak Needs Your Support Dear Squeakers, Smalltalkers, and friends of object-oriented, interactive programming systems!

Please consider making a donation to Squeak, and encourage your company or educational institution to think of supporting our project.

-> https://squeak.org/ https://squeak.org/ (PayPal via "Donate" button) -> https://sfconservancy.org/donate/ https://sfconservancy.org/donate/ (Instructions for wire transfer)

The Squeak project is an open-source project with a long, pioneering, and successful history -- and an ambitious future. We operate under the umbrella of the Software Freedom Conservancy (SFC), which provides legal oversight and administrative support. In turn, Squeak is proud to be a member organization supporting SFC's ideals, which are compatible with our own goals and values.

What is needed?

Mainly relying on the dedication and motivation of our volunteer community, Squeak operates with a modest budget. We have ongoing costs to maintain our infrastructure, and it is important for all to keep Squeak's services up and running. These include the squeak.org web site, mailing lists, code repositories, and more.

Our budget is administered by SFC, who, providing the legal support, receives just 1 dollar for every 10 dollars donated. The other 90 percent go directly into Squeak's account to then pay for our servers.

-> https://squeak.org/ https://squeak.org/ (PayPal via "Donate" button) -> https://sfconservancy.org/donate/ https://sfconservancy.org/donate/ (Instructions for wire transfer)

Please think about supporting Squeak in a way that fits your own budget. Maybe you can donate on a regular basis. Maybe you can only afford it once. Having fun playing with Squeak? Think about $10 a year. Did or do you benefit from Squeak somehow in your professional career? Think about $100 a year. Maybe you are a company that actively uses Squeak in their technology stack? Our budget could definitely benefit from $1000 a year or more.

Why now?

We want to establish a more sustainable funding without having to rely on occasional, unpredictable credits programs for open-source software.

We are currently migrating our services from Rackspace (https://www.rackspace.com https://www.rackspace.com/) to Hetzner (https://www.hetzner.com https://www.hetzner.com/). In recent years, we have benefited from Rackspace's no-cost support. While we are very grateful for that support, it is no longer available. In fact, it leaped from no-cost to high-cost, which has been eating our funds quite a lot during the recent months of migration efforts. Fortunately, our low-cost target, Hetzner, looks very promising to be donation-backed for the time to come.

Please consider making a donation to Squeak and SFC, and encourage your company or educational institution to think of supporting our project as well.

-> https://squeak.org/ https://squeak.org/ (PayPal via "Donate" button) -> https://sfconservancy.org/donate/ https://sfconservancy.org/donate/ (Instructions for wire transfer)

First-time donors are especially appreciated.

So, if you love Squeak, then please consider a donation and keep on having fun with our object-oriented, interactive programming system, the Smalltalk language, and the whole Squeak experience.

The Squeak Oversight Board on behalf of the Squeak community

Hi Tim, hi all,

thank you for the reply. These were exactly the details that I was looking for. :-)

I also want to apologize for the tone of my prior message in which I have jumbled a very few - IMO fair - questions with different and counter-proposals. Again, there is no doubt for me that every donation will be for the benefit of the Squeak project. Everything else was just additional thoughts that maybe did not belong in this thread.

I have made a first donation that I hope is appropriate for my current situation and the active size of the community. I'm looking forward to learning how many donations we will have collected and donating again next year. :-)

---

During the past 10 years, there was not a single company that has funded us on a regular basis with a larger amount of money.

That's a real shame.

...

Will the amount of donations have a direct impact on the time my image needs to update etc.?

Yes. If there are no donations we won't have access to servers and your updates will take a long time.

Oops, of course. :-) I was rather thinking in the other direction - could more donations and better hardware help us speed up source.squeak.org operations, or is this more an implementational limit related to single-threading and some current design decisions of Monticello?

it would be nice to be able to sponsor some efforts similar to the google summer of code stuff. Or to donate towards costs of running Squeakends/Camp Smalltalk events. Or even to sponsor students, run a bounty list, etc etc.

These are exciting ideas! If any of them should come within reach, it would be great to discuss them in greater detail on the list.

Best, Christoph

________________________________ Von: Squeak-dev squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org im Auftrag von tim Rowledge tim@rowledge.org Gesendet: Mittwoch, 29. Juni 2022 20:08:57 An: The general-purpose Squeak developers list Betreff: Re: [squeak-dev] Call for Donation | Squeak Needs Your Support

Speaking for the board, just for the moment -

We understand that some of you want to know more about the actual amount of funding we need to raise at the moment.

A donation of $50 would cover our ongoing server cost for about a month. This includes our infrastructure for our website, mailing lists, code repositories, and file servers. There are no domain-holding costs at the moment as we have long running and very generous sponsors for that:

squeak.org - Dan H.H. Ingalls squeaksource.com - ESUG squeakfoundation.org - Cees de Groot

We do not *need* all that much money per month, which is just as well since we get very little donated. There are *no* frequent, reliable donations at the moment.

Maybe we can change that. Small donations from people that use Squeak a lot, or make a living based on using it, could make a big difference.

During the past 10 years, there was not a single company that has funded us on a regular basis with a larger amount of money. That's why there are no extra badges on our squeak.org website. Once we get our first "gold sponsor," we will definitely let you know. :-)

Marcel's initial email explained why we need to try to get some funding and to build a small buffer in the bank. It's not complicated.

Speaking personally -

Could you maybe elaborate further on *how much* will actually be needed in total?

To run the servers as we do now (ie a fairly minimal system entirely supported by volunteers) we need around $50 a month *plus* the small tithe to SFC, so call it $60/month.

Will the amount of donations have a direct impact on the time my image needs to update etc.?

Yes. If there are no donations we won't have access to servers and your updates will take a long time.

For clarification: Does Hetzner provide a similar no-cost support option to Rackspace or are you talking about an extrapolation of the donations that squeak.org has received in the past? :-)

Apparently not. And in part, relying on the continuing availability of free servers from Rackspace is what caused the problem this time. We did actually put effort into handling this.

And if we *could* raise significant funds? Well, apart from paying bloated salaries to the board members (and for the humour impaired, I'm joking) it would be nice to be able to sponsor some efforts similar to the google summer of code stuff. Or to donate towards costs of running Squeakends/Camp Smalltalk events. Or even to sponsor students, run a bounty list, etc etc.

tim -- tim Rowledge; tim@rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Useful random insult:- Cackles a lot, but I ain't seen no eggs yet.

Hi John --

You do not have to use PayPal to make a donation to Squeak. Just write an email to donate@sfconservancy.org [mailto:donate@sfconservancy.org] and ask for instructions about wire transfer. For more information, see: https://sfconservancy.org/donate/ [https://sfconservancy.org/donate/]

Thank you for your support!

Best, Marcel Am 07.07.2022 09:13:24 schrieb John Pfersich via Squeak-dev squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org: I have a problem with SFC’s method of collecting donations. They use Paypal, which is an organization that I refuse the deal with since the checking account that you link with is open season to all sorts of unscrupulous activity that Paypal condones. And you must give Paypal a checking account number.

/*—————————————————-*/ Sent from my iPhone https://boincstats.com/signature/-1/user/51616339056/sig.png [https://boincstats.com/signature/-1/user/51616339056/sig.png] See https://objectnets.net and https://objectnets.org https://datascilv.com and https://datascilv.org

On Jun 30, 2022, at 05:46, Thiede, Christoph Christoph.Thiede@student.hpi.uni-potsdam.de wrote:

 Hi Tim, hi all,

thank you for the reply. These were exactly the details that I was looking for. :-)

I also want to apologize for the tone of my prior message in which I have jumbled a very few - IMO fair - questions with different and counter-proposals. Again, there is no doubt for me that every donation will be for the benefit of the Squeak project. Everything else was just additional thoughts that maybe did not belong in this thread.

I have made a first donation that I hope is appropriate for my current situation and the active size of the community. I'm looking forward to learning how many donations we will have collected and donating again next year. :-)

---

During the past 10 years, there was not a single company that has funded us on a regular basis with a larger amount of money.

That's a real shame.

> Will the amount of donations have a direct impact on the time my image needs to update etc.?    Yes. If there are no donations we won't have access to servers and your updates will take a long time.

Oops, of course. :-) I was rather thinking in the other direction - could more donations and better hardware help us speed up source.squeak.org operations, or is this more an implementational limit related to single-threading and some current design decisions of Monticello?

it would be nice to be able to sponsor some efforts similar to the google summer of code stuff. Or to donate towards costs of running Squeakends/Camp Smalltalk events. Or even to sponsor students, run a bounty list, etc etc.

These are exciting ideas! If any of them should come within reach, it would be great to discuss them in greater detail on the list.

Best, Christoph

Von: Squeak-dev squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org im Auftrag von tim Rowledge tim@rowledge.org Gesendet: Mittwoch, 29. Juni 2022 20:08:57 An: The general-purpose Squeak developers list Betreff: Re: [squeak-dev] Call for Donation | Squeak Needs Your Support   Speaking for the board, just for the moment -

We understand that some of you want to know more about the actual amount of funding we need to raise at the moment.

A donation of $50 would cover our ongoing server cost for about a month. This includes our infrastructure for our website, mailing lists, code repositories, and file servers. There are no domain-holding costs at the moment as we have long running and very generous sponsors for that:

squeak.org - Dan H.H. Ingalls squeaksource.com - ESUG squeakfoundation.org - Cees de Groot

We do not *need* all that much money per month, which is just as well since we get very little donated. There are *no* frequent, reliable donations at the moment.

Maybe we can change that. Small donations from people that use Squeak a lot, or make a living based on using it, could make a big difference.

During the past 10 years, there was not a single company that has funded us on a regular basis with a larger amount of money. That's why there are no extra badges on our squeak.org website. Once we get our first "gold sponsor," we will definitely let you know. :-)

Marcel's initial email explained why we need to try to get some funding and to build a small buffer in the bank. It's not complicated.

Speaking personally -

Could you maybe elaborate further on *how much* will actually be needed in total?

To run the servers as we do now (ie a fairly minimal system entirely supported by volunteers) we need around $50 a month *plus* the small tithe to SFC, so call it $60/month.

Will the amount of donations have a direct impact on the time my image needs to update etc.?

Yes. If there are no donations we won't have access to servers and your updates will take a long time.

For clarification: Does Hetzner provide a similar no-cost support option to Rackspace or are you talking about an extrapolation of the donations that squeak.org has received in the past? :-)

Apparently not. And in part, relying on the continuing availability of free servers from Rackspace is what caused the problem this time. We did actually put effort into handling this.

And if we *could* raise significant funds? Well, apart from paying bloated salaries to the board members (and for the humour impaired, I'm joking) it would be nice to be able to sponsor some efforts similar to the google summer of code stuff. Or to donate towards costs of running Squeakends/Camp Smalltalk events. Or even to sponsor students, run a bounty list, etc etc.

tim -- tim Rowledge; tim@rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim [http://www.rowledge.org/tim] Useful random insult:- Cackles a lot, but I ain't seen no eggs yet.