As usual I've taken some notes about Smalltalk at OOPLSA and have posted coverage of Alan's talk at http://wiki.cs.uiuc.edu/CampSmalltalk/OOPSLA+2004+Trip+report
Please take a peek and because it's a wiki make any corrections or provide more material.
-- ======================================================================== === John M. McIntosh johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com 1-800-477-2659 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ======================================================================== ===
Thank you, John.
I always appreciate your reports.
The "womens' bellybuttons" were a paridigm shift on several levels. <g>
What struck me most from the report was encapsulated in the remarks about Sutherland's "[not knowing] it was hard" to have come up with all he did, and the comment that the PARC folks ". . . thought IBM was so much brighter" while far surpassing them.
The "nuclear control panel" also resonated with me; I have not yet developed sufficient fluency with Squeak to pack away my pencils and pads of paper, but I realized as I read the comment that I now reach for Squeak first, then to the pencils if I must. To do creative work in Windows is a nightmare, like cooking with a blowtorch and a shovel.
Anyway, thanks again for posting these reports, and for your other fine work on behalf of the Smalltalk community.
Gary
----- Original Message ----- From: "John M McIntosh" johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list" squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 3:45 PM Subject: Alan's ACM talk at OOPLSA 2004
As usual I've taken some notes about Smalltalk at OOPLSA and have posted coverage of Alan's talk at http://wiki.cs.uiuc.edu/CampSmalltalk/OOPSLA+2004+Trip+report
Please take a peek and because it's a wiki make any corrections or provide more material.
-- ======================================================================== === John M. McIntosh johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com 1-800-477-2659 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ======================================================================== ===
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"Gary Fisher" gafisher@sprynet.com wrote:
To do creative work in Windows is a nightmare, like cooking with a blowtorch and a shovel.
Awesome metaphor! It applies to so many things.
And I second Gary -- thanks, John, for sharing what is happening on the scene!
-Lex
As usual I've taken some notes about Smalltalk at OOPLSA and have posted coverage of Alan's talk at http://wiki.cs.uiuc.edu/CampSmalltalk/OOPSLA+2004+Trip+report
Thanks for the notes. It was very interesting. But...
Does anyone else find the car morphic lesson...somehwat counter-intuitive?
Particularly the steering wheel morphic?
If you're dealing with kids who have used computers before, clicking-and-dragging in a circular motion--well, first of all, it's a relatively difficult motion. It's an unfamiliar motion. And it's not an enjoyable motion.
Then there are the ten icons surrounding the morphic, which is rather a lot.
Anyone else find this to be he case?
Blake blake@kingdomrpg.com wrote:
If you're dealing with kids who have used computers before, clicking-and-dragging in a circular motion--well, first of all, it's a relatively difficult motion. It's an unfamiliar motion. And it's not an enjoyable motion.
By the way, you don't have to do a circular motion. Up/down and left/right also work fine.
Then there are the ten icons surrounding the morphic, which is rather a lot.
Somewhat agreed. It must be shocking to see them come up the first time, but then after that, is it really a big deal?
Keep in mind that Squeak is usually introduced to kids while an adult is around to guide them. The halo is probably terrible for people learning Squeak *alone*, because there is so much in it. I doubt it is a big deal for people learning with a helper at hand, though, because the helper can guide them through the initial steps.
Anyway, real UI questions have to be answered by trying in front of people in a realistic setting. We could shoot in the dark all day. :|
In practice, drive-a-car is eminently learnable. Squeak Central has a ton of experience at this point (I bet a few have drive-a-car dreams and nightmares at this point :)), and I've tried it a few times myself with near-universal success. (The exceptions have been grown up computer guys; the 4-6 kids I've shown all got it to work and really liked it.)
I recommend people try it if you get a chance. Find a kid or a kid-like adult, and show them how to recreate drive-a-car. Just mimic Alan from one of his OOPSLA talks. Insist that the kid [sic] begins by drawing their own car (or other vehicle), because it sets the stage very nicely. And then enjoy the show. Most likely your kid will have a blast. They love finally being in control of their own computer!
-Lex
On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:28:32 -0400, lex@cc.gatech.edu wrote:
By the way, you don't have to do a circular motion. Up/down and left/right also work fine.
<nod> Point.
Somewhat agreed. It must be shocking to see them come up the first time, but then after that, is it really a big deal?
It's a big deal until they become second nature, I think.
Keep in mind that Squeak is usually introduced to kids while an adult is around to guide them. The halo is probably terrible for people learning Squeak *alone*, because there is so much in it. I doubt it is a big deal for people learning with a helper at hand, though, because the helper can guide them through the initial steps.
I'm leery of methods that require another person, just because it then becomes more an issue of how the other person handles things rather than the method.
Anyway, real UI questions have to be answered by trying in front of people in a realistic setting. We could shoot in the dark all day. :|
Fair 'nuff.
I recommend people try it if you get a chance. Find a kid or a kid-like adult, and show them how to recreate drive-a-car. Just mimic Alan from one of his OOPSLA talks. Insist that the kid [sic] begins by drawing their own car (or other vehicle), because it sets the stage very nicely. And then enjoy the show. Most likely your kid will have a blast. They love finally being in control of their own computer!
I'll give it a try this weekend.
And of course you can limit most things in the etoys UI if that is a preference. E.g. there are quite a few options that educators can choose from for the initial halo of handles, starting with only three or four basic handles. However, the experience now with literally thousands of children has shown that the full complement of halos bothers them not at all, and the basic etoy system is now shipped with the full preference turned on.
However, there are many other things that could stand improvement ....
Cheers,
Alan
At 06:28 AM 11/4/2004, lex@cc.gatech.edu wrote:
Blake blake@kingdomrpg.com wrote:
If you're dealing with kids who have used computers before, clicking-and-dragging in a circular motion--well, first of all, it's a relatively difficult motion. It's an unfamiliar motion. And it's not an enjoyable motion.
By the way, you don't have to do a circular motion. Up/down and left/right also work fine.
Then there are the ten icons surrounding the morphic, which is rather a lot.
Somewhat agreed. It must be shocking to see them come up the first time, but then after that, is it really a big deal?
Keep in mind that Squeak is usually introduced to kids while an adult is around to guide them. The halo is probably terrible for people learning Squeak *alone*, because there is so much in it. I doubt it is a big deal for people learning with a helper at hand, though, because the helper can guide them through the initial steps.
Anyway, real UI questions have to be answered by trying in front of people in a realistic setting. We could shoot in the dark all day. :|
In practice, drive-a-car is eminently learnable. Squeak Central has a ton of experience at this point (I bet a few have drive-a-car dreams and nightmares at this point :)), and I've tried it a few times myself with near-universal success. (The exceptions have been grown up computer guys; the 4-6 kids I've shown all got it to work and really liked it.)
I recommend people try it if you get a chance. Find a kid or a kid-like adult, and show them how to recreate drive-a-car. Just mimic Alan from one of his OOPSLA talks. Insist that the kid [sic] begins by drawing their own car (or other vehicle), because it sets the stage very nicely. And then enjoy the show. Most likely your kid will have a blast. They love finally being in control of their own computer!
-Lex
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