Yes! Yes! Yes!
I think this is an excellent idea. As mentioned, the pluggable web server in Squeak is a great starting point. Mark Guzdial and others are modifying the Swiki servers to handle uploads, and the whole site is becoming very interactive. The next generation of pluggable web server is called commanche - I have noticed non-smalltalkers enquiring about the security and load aspects of the servers, so I suspect there is a big demand for a robust Smalltalk server. To find out more, do a search on PWS, pluggable web server, swiki etc, on the following home page:
http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak.1
L. M. Rappaport wrote in message 377385ac.4116159@beavis.kronos.com...
Another good starting place might be the PWS (programmable web server) classes in Squeak. There is already an existing set of classes for doing just that. Many SWIKI's are already running using this code.
Larry
rapp@lmr.com
Smalltalk4ever! smalltalk4ever@my-deja.com wrote (with possible editing):
In article 7j74sq$ldq6@deagol.cc.flinders.edu.au, "Peter Smet" peter_smet@hotmail.com wrote:
Stephan, [stuff about increasing Smalltalk's public profile snipped] These are all excellent points. I would like to add one more.
The visibility of Smalltalk would be hugely increased by an 'open source killer app'
OK - HERE'S THE KILLER SMALLTALK APP! [read on!]
Sun and Netscape just "opened the door" for us... There's a TREMENDOUS opportunity for Smalltalk to have a killer app, right in front of us.
Sun's JWS - Java Web Server - has been getting serious kudos from the web serving community for its performance over CGI - Since JWS serves pages with "lightweight threads" it's a LOT faster than CGI's running as UNIX processes. Smalltalk processes would be just as lightweight!
The "Sun/Netscape Alliance" process identified a few Sun products that were in direct competition with Netscape products. In their infinite wisdom, the "Alliance" decided to "End-Of-Life" the Java Web Server product. The upcoming 2.0 release will be the LAST release of JWS.
WAHOO! This is the perfect time for a "Smalltalk Web Server" to come on the scene. I know some work has already been done along these lines, but I don't remember it being free, nor do I see it (currently) being packaged in a way that a non-smalltalker "web administrator" could simply install and use. Most importantly, it should be cross-platform, i.e. it should work on VW and VA and Dolphin and whatever else people are hacking on nowadays...
The JWS product is a good reference implementation; it already shows how a web server can integrate with existing CGI scripts, standard http and ftp and file services, and, most importantly, it lets developers bounce "servlets" up and down without bouncing the whole server up and down. While it's admin interface leaves a lot to be desired, any Web Server's admin interface needs to be at least as good as JWS's is.
Man, this is exciting to me. It's not often I see a "killer app" opportunity as clearly as I see this one.
Let's run with this, and kick some serious java-butt while we're at it.
Eliot, James, Ralph, Eric, and Peter - - aw, heck, and anyone else who's interested - - Come On, Let's Make This HAPPEN!
NOW is the time to "play the right cards" in the Web Server market.
-Paul Reiber Smalltalk4ever! http://members.excite.com/directory/Smalltalk4ever
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
What a lovely vision!
But I don't understand how an interpreted server can have processes as lightweight as compiled lightweight processes. Is this after some hypothetical compiler has sped up frequently used code paths or something? I think I understand parts of that direction, but it does not seem to get much discussion here.
Dick
Smalltalk4ever! smalltalk4ever@my-deja.com wrote (with possible editing):
... WAHOO! This is the perfect time for a "Smalltalk Web Server" to come on the scene. I know some work has already been done along these lines, but I don't remember it being free, nor do I see it (currently) being packaged in a way that a non-smalltalker "web administrator" could simply install and use. Most importantly, it should be cross-platform, i.e. it should work on VW and VA and Dolphin and whatever else people are hacking on nowadays...
Actually, the important thing is that it must be cross-platform in the sense of running on different OS platforms. I don't think it's necessary for it to work across multiple Smalltalk implementations (VW, VA, Dolphin, Squeak, etc.).
Squeak would be ideal, since it's ported to more OS platforms than any other Smalltalk implementation, and it's free and open source. Close runner-up would probably be VisualWorks, but then it wouldn't be free if you were running a web server for a business, and freeness is what you need for it to really catch on. (are there any issues with Squeak threads being less robust than VW threads?)
Of course, such a project would need a real leader/instigator. I'm not sure if the current PWS stuff is going to evolve enough at its current rate to be successful as a web server than any ol' admin would want to use. This is where someone needs to step up and go for it... stardom in the open source community would surely follow. :-)
(Did I really use the word "freeness" in the second paragraph? Ack.)
- Doug Way EAI/Transom Technogies, Ann Arbor, MI dway@eai.com, dway@mat.net http://www.transom.com
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Peter Smet