Am 25.06.2009 um 17:28 schrieb Igor Stasenko:

I prefer a more shorter way to get puzzled:

type: 0

and then use 'debug it' from menu

That just locks up the image. Thanks for no warning.

(though I wonder why the Mac VM recently does not allow me to break into this kind of errors)

- Bert -

Igor Stasenko wrote:

I prefer a more shorter way to get puzzled:

type: 0

and then use 'debug it' from menu

:)

There is an easy fix for it, just change one expression in

ParagraphEditor>>debug:receiver:in:

from this

[debugger interruptedContext method == aCompiledMethod] whileFalse: [debugger send].

to instead

[debugger interruptedContext method == aCompiledMethod or:[guineaPig isTerminated]] whileFalse: [debugger send].

The issue is that because the expression has no send the simulation runs away and causes a bunch of problems.

BTW, since this thread is about mastering Squeak, if you can explain why the runaway simulation suspends the simulator process I will personally acknowledge your mastery of Squeak. I couldn't figure out why that happens :-)

Cheers, - Andreas

2009/6/25 Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de:

Am 25.06.2009 um 18:15 schrieb Andreas Raab:

...

BTW, since this thread is about mastering Squeak, if you can explain why the runaway simulation suspends the simulator process I will personally acknowledge your mastery of Squeak. I couldn't figure out why that happens :-)

I know why :)

Please tell us :)

• Bert -

Bert Freudenberg wrote:

...

...

I know why :)

Please tell us :)

I told Andreas privately, didn't want to spoil the fun for the others. But your analysis is correct.

Indeed. Brilliant bit of analysis. You guys *are* Masters of Squeak (tm)

Cheers, - Andreas

...

...

...

...

"Igor" == Igor Stasenko siguctua@gmail.com writes:

Igor> Can i have cake, please :))))

Pssst. the cake is a lie!

</meme>

2009/6/25 Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de:

On 25.06.2009, at 20:14, Igor Stasenko wrote:

...

2009/6/25 Andreas Raab andreas.raab@gmx.de:

...

Bert Freudenberg wrote:

...

...

...

I know why :)

Please tell us :)

I told Andreas privately, didn't want to spoil the fun for the others. But your analysis is correct.

Indeed. Brilliant bit of analysis. You guys *are* Masters of Squeak (tm)

Can i have cake, please :))))

Sure - tasting good:

_____           _..--'''@   @'''--.._         .'   @_/-//-/>/>'/ @  '.        (  @  /_<//<'/----------^-)        |'._  @     //|###########|        |~  ''--..@|',|}}}}}}}}}}}|        |  ~   ~   |/ |###########|        | ~~  ~   ~|./|{{{{{{{{{{{|         '._ ~ ~ ~ |,/`````````````      jrei  ''--.~.|/

Yeah!!

http://paulhutch.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/demotivator1-small...

• Bert -

On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 10:28:31PM +0300, Igor Stasenko wrote:

2009/6/25 Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de:

...

On 25.06.2009, at 20:14, Igor Stasenko wrote:

...

2009/6/25 Andreas Raab andreas.raab@gmx.de:

...

Bert Freudenberg wrote:

...

...

> > I know why :) > Please tell us :)

I told Andreas privately, didn't want to spoil the fun for the others. But your analysis is correct.

Indeed. Brilliant bit of analysis. You guys *are* Masters of Squeak (tm)

Can i have cake, please :))))

Sure - tasting good:

?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??_____ ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? _..--'''@ ?? @'''--.._ ?? ?? ?? ?? .' ?? @_/-//-/>/>'/ @ ??'. ?? ?? ?? ??( ??@ ??/_<//<'/----------^-) ?? ?? ?? ??|'._ ??@ ?? ?? //|###########| ?? ?? ?? ??|~ ??''--..@|',|}}}}}}}}}}}| ?? ?? ?? ??| ??~ ?? ~ ?? |/ |###########| ?? ?? ?? ??| ~~ ??~ ?? ~|./|{{{{{{{{{{{| ?? ?? ?? ?? '._ ~ ~ ~ |,/````````````` ?? ?? ??jrei ??''--.~.|/

Yeah!!

http://paulhutch.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/demotivator1-small...

Or for the "you are here" t-shirt: http://store.funnytimes.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Cod...

Dave

On 25.06.2009, at 22:12, Ian Trudel wrote:

2009/6/25 Igor Stasenko siguctua@gmail.com:

...

Can i have cake, please :))))

Ah! You're definitively Russian. They eat cake for every other occasion. Way too much sugar for me. =)

Speaking of Sugar, have you seen the Sugar Labs press release?

http://news.google.com/news?q=SugarLabs

Some news outlets even mention Etoys ...

- Bert -

2009/6/25 Igor Stasenko siguctua@gmail.com:

2009/6/25 Ian Trudel ian.trudel@gmail.com:

...

2009/6/25 Igor Stasenko siguctua@gmail.com:

...

Can i have cake, please :))))

Ah! You're definitively Russian. They eat cake for every other occasion. Way too much sugar for me. =)

Haha.. wrong! We not eating them on occasion :)

Actually, I have been living and working in Russia for a while in the past. They would eat cakes on any occasion. Someone has a baby? Let's have a cake! Someone gets back from vacations, let's have cakes! Someone is leaving the company? He pays cakes to everybody! It's Cakeland! =)

The cake is mentioned in humorous/irony context, when 2 persons speaking:

1st: i am cool, isn't ?!?! 2nd: yeah, buy a medal for yourself

We would say that one in Canada. =)

P.S. i'm Ukrainian, but yes, i speak Russian as well.

Поздравляю! В каком городе ты живёшь? Это сюрприз узнать, что есть люди в Украине, которые создают программы на языке программирования Smalltalk. Тебе нужно Smalltalk на работе или что? Мне кажется, ты хорошо знаешь Squeak уже. =)

-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

All the same, best regards, Ian

How I wish I could understand you two. However, it‘s nice to read some cyrillic letters again :) -Tobias Am 2009-06-26 um 03:15 schrieb Igor Stasenko:

Поздравляю! В каком городе ты живёшь? Это сюрприз узнать, что есть люди в Украине, которые создают программы на языке программирования Smalltalk. Тебе нужно Smalltalk на работе или что? Мне кажется, ты хорошо знаешь Squeak уже. =)

Живу я в Киеве. Есть люди, но очень мало.. хотя мож гдето спрятались.. :) Smalltalk это прежде всего мое хобби. Ну и конечно работаю на нем, если есть возможность. Да, знаю достаточно, так как обитаю здесь уже 3й год. Пиши в листе пожалуйста на английском, а то у тебя русский текст, а идиомы английские. Да и потом - тут не только мы :)

For me smalltalk is hobby too, but i believe in brilliant future :) it;s really cool to read russian in this list, but in IT communities and the Internet as well no countries, until we start to search a job or plan a meeting.

2009/6/26, Ian Trudel ian.trudel@gmail.com:

2009/6/26 Tobias Pape Das.Linux@gmx.de:

...

How I wish I could understand you two. However, it‘s nice to read some cyrillic letters again :)        -Tobias

I was just a little bit surprised to see an Ukrainian into Smalltalk programming. Not necessarily the most popular programming language in Russia and Ukraine.

Igor, by the way, is there great resources in Russian specifically about Squeak? That would be kicker for some acquaintances of mine.

Ian.

-- http://mecenia.blogspot.com/

On 26.06.2009, at 07:42, Tobias Pape wrote:

How I wish I could understand you two. However, it‘s nice to read some cyrillic letters again :) -Tobias

Hehe, the amazing thing is I can still read it and get the gist, even after 20 years of virtually no practice ...

- Bert -

Am 2009-06-26 um 03:15 schrieb Igor Stasenko:

...

Поздравляю! В каком городе ты живёшь? Это сюрприз узнать, что есть люди в Украине, которые создают программы на языке программирования Smalltalk. Тебе нужно Smalltalk на работе или что? Мне кажется, ты хорошо знаешь Squeak уже. =)

Живу я в Киеве. Есть люди, но очень мало.. хотя мож гдето спрятались.. :) Smalltalk это прежде всего мое хобби. Ну и конечно работаю на нем, если есть возможность. Да, знаю достаточно, так как обитаю здесь уже 3й год. Пиши в листе пожалуйста на английском, а то у тебя русский текст, а идиомы английские. Да и потом - тут не только мы :)

2009/6/25 Andreas Raab andreas.raab@gmx.de:

Igor Stasenko wrote:

...

I prefer a more shorter way to get puzzled:

type: 0

and then use 'debug it' from menu

:)

There is an easy fix for it, just change one expression in

ParagraphEditor>>debug:receiver:in:

from this

[debugger interruptedContext method == aCompiledMethod]      whileFalse: [debugger send].

to instead

[debugger interruptedContext method == aCompiledMethod or:[guineaPig isTerminated]]      whileFalse: [debugger send].

The issue is that because the expression has no send the simulation runs away and causes a bunch of problems.

BTW, since this thread is about mastering Squeak, if you can explain why the runaway simulation suspends the simulator process I will personally acknowledge your mastery of Squeak. I couldn't figure out why that happens :-)

1. The compiled method '0' looks like following: all bytecodes: Quick return 0 header: 261 "primitive: 261 numArgs: 0 numTemps: 0 numLiterals: 0 frameSize: 16 isClosureCompiled: false"

2. stepToSendOrReturn doesn't treat this as return:

stepToSendOrReturn "Simulate the execution of bytecodes until either sending a message or returning a value to the receiver (that is, until switching contexts)."

| ctxt | [self willReallySend | self willReturn | self willStore] whileFalse: [ ctxt _ self step. ctxt == self ifFalse: [self halt. "Caused by mustBeBoolean handling" ^ctxt]] neither 'willStore' nor 'willReallySend' nor 'willReturn' checks that method contains no bytecode, but an primitive which does quick return of literal value. I think a #willReturn need to be modified to check against this primitive number. Another way - is to force compiler to not optimize the 'doit' method. Unfortunately squeak's compiler having no option to turn off all optimizations.

3. because of 2. the process continue simulation and returns to a #newProcess: method newProcess "Answer a Process running the code in the receiver. The process is not scheduled." <primitive: 19> "Simulation guard" ^Process forContext: [self value. Processor terminateActive] priority: Processor activePriority

where "Processor terminateActive" effectively kills/suspends the debugger process, because active process is not the simulated process, as this method thinking :)

This could be fixed like following:

newProcess "Answer a Process running the code in the receiver. The process is not scheduled." <primitive: 19> "Simulation guard" | process | ^process := Process forContext: [self value. process terminate] priority: Processor activePriority

--- It seems works at first try, not sure about side effects. I'm letting you to explore :) On debug '0' its now spawns another error: subscript out of bounds. But its not hangs anymore.

Cheers,  - Andreas

Btw, this inability to interrupt in all such methods is the reason of another annoying and confusing debugger behavior:

try debug:

1 isNumber

and when debugger opens, press 'into'. Debugger not shows the method, but instead immediately shows as if method already returns. Now you have to spend time figuring out, what its returned, even if there is constant - sometimes you need to know exact value. But because of this , you can't. All you can do is modify method which sends this message to see returned result, like:

| temp |

temp := 1 isNumber.

and then check it in temps.

Besides another issues, it would be good if debugger would display a stack top somewhere (so we can always see a value(s) returned from method(s) or primitives or whatever).

2009/6/25 Igor Stasenko siguctua@gmail.com:

2009/6/25 Igor Stasenko siguctua@gmail.com:

...

2009/6/25 Andreas Raab andreas.raab@gmx.de:

...

Igor Stasenko wrote:

...

I prefer a more shorter way to get puzzled:

type: 0

and then use 'debug it' from menu

:)

There is an easy fix for it, just change one expression in

ParagraphEditor>>debug:receiver:in:

from this

[debugger interruptedContext method == aCompiledMethod]      whileFalse: [debugger send].

to instead

[debugger interruptedContext method == aCompiledMethod or:[guineaPig isTerminated]]      whileFalse: [debugger send].

The issue is that because the expression has no send the simulation runs away and causes a bunch of problems.

BTW, since this thread is about mastering Squeak, if you can explain why the runaway simulation suspends the simulator process I will personally acknowledge your mastery of Squeak. I couldn't figure out why that happens :-)

1. The compiled method '0' looks like following:

all bytecodes: Quick return 0 header: 261 "primitive: 261  numArgs: 0  numTemps: 0  numLiterals: 0  frameSize: 16  isClosureCompiled: false"

2. stepToSendOrReturn doesn't treat this as return:

stepToSendOrReturn        "Simulate the execution of bytecodes until either sending a message or        returning a value to the receiver (that is, until switching contexts)."

| ctxt |        [self willReallySend | self willReturn | self willStore]                whileFalse: [                        ctxt _ self step.                        ctxt == self ifFalse: [self halt.                                "Caused by mustBeBoolean handling"                                ^ctxt]] neither 'willStore' nor 'willReallySend' nor 'willReturn' checks that method contains no bytecode, but an primitive which does quick return of literal value. I think a #willReturn need to be modified to check against this primitive number. Another way - is to force compiler to not optimize the 'doit' method. Unfortunately squeak's compiler having no option to turn off all optimizations.

3. because of 2. the process continue simulation and returns to a

#newProcess: method

ah, forgot to add:

and because debugger waits a method's context to be activated:

[debugger interruptedContext method == aCompiledMethod]                whileFalse: [debugger send].

but its never is, because its having no chance to iterrupt inside that method  - '0' . That's why its going to 'Processor terminateActive' without any clues that something went wrong.

...

newProcess        "Answer a Process running the code in the receiver. The process is not        scheduled."        <primitive: 19> "Simulation guard"        ^Process                forContext:                        [self value.                        Processor terminateActive]                priority: Processor activePriority

where "Processor terminateActive" effectively kills/suspends the debugger process, because active process is not the simulated process, as this method thinking :)

This could be fixed like following:

newProcess        "Answer a Process running the code in the receiver. The process is not        scheduled."        <primitive: 19> "Simulation guard"  | process |        ^process := Process                forContext:                        [self value.                        process terminate]                priority: Processor activePriority

---

It seems works at first try, not sure about side effects. I'm letting you to explore :) On debug '0' its now spawns another error: subscript out of bounds. But its not hangs anymore.

...

Cheers,  - Andreas

-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.