Hello,
I have a usb stick with a Squeak windows installation.
Now I want to make this run on a mac and Linux. From my windows point of view I would have to copy the Mac or Linux equivalent of squeak.exe.
While the Win VM download is half a MB the Mac VM download is 13 MB bringing an image and loads of files in deeply nested folders.
Is there a way to copy one file (or whatever is the minimum set of files)into my Win installation and create a link (or batch?) which starts the Mac VM with my "3_6_basic_projektleitung.image"
Same for Linux, the VM download installs about 4 MB in multiple folders.
I want to plug in the stick in any machine and the three topmost items should be: 0Linux 0Mac and 0Windows of which I would choose the right type of OS.
Thanks,
Herbert mailto:herbertkoenig@gmx.net
El 8/2/07 7:01 AM, "Herbert König" herbertkoenig@gmx.net escribió:
Hello,
I have a usb stick with a Squeak windows installation.
Now I want to make this run on a mac and Linux. From my windows point of view I would have to copy the Mac or Linux equivalent of squeak.exe.
While the Win VM download is half a MB the Mac VM download is 13 MB bringing an image and loads of files in deeply nested folders.
Is there a way to copy one file (or whatever is the minimum set of files)into my Win installation and create a link (or batch?) which starts the Mac VM with my "3_6_basic_projektleitung.image"
Same for Linux, the VM download installs about 4 MB in multiple folders.
I want to plug in the stick in any machine and the three topmost items should be: 0Linux 0Mac and 0Windows of which I would choose the right type of OS.
Thanks,
Herbert
Make a folder with the different VM for each OS and with your wished Squeak.nnnn.image , Squeak.nnnn.changes, the both SqueakV39.sources and SqueakV3.sources (for new and old images).
I usual copy this to target computer. With Mac , zero problem, with Linux still I don't have deep experience, but should work
Edgar
Hello Edgar,
EJDC> Make a folder with the different VM for each OS and with your wished EJDC> Squeak.nnnn.image , Squeak.nnnn.changes, the both SqueakV39.sources and EJDC> SqueakV3.sources (for new and old images).
Problem is: which of the many files are the VM for mac and Linux?
The image and the changes must be the same for all 3 OS because I just use it as a note taker. Projects in projects full of workspaces, textMorphs and other morphs. No programming.
So one folder, where I have sources, image, changes and the three startup files for the three OS's. The win VM can reside in that same folder because it is one exe, one dll and one ini the last one is created on startup if it is missing.
Ideally the other two VM's would also be a few files copied into that same folder.
My problem is, having never seen a mac, I don't know which files to copy. I don't know how to identify a Mac executable and what additional files are necessary. I don't know if a Linux executable needs to be in /usr/bin/.... and how to identify a Linux executable.
And then how to create a link which starts the VM with that particular image.
It's funny how stupid I feel as soon as I'm leaving my known OS.
Thanks,
Herbert
El 8/2/07 9:19 AM, "Herbert König" herbertkoenig@gmx.net escribió:
My problem is, having never seen a mac, I don't know which files to copy. I don't know how to identify a Mac executable and what additional files are necessary. I don't know if a Linux executable needs to be in /usr/bin/.... and how to identify a Linux executable.
And then how to create a link which starts the VM with that particular image.
It's funny how stupid I feel as soon as I'm leaving my known OS.
No. I only recently add Windows and Umbuntu here, so many faced the different OS problem. For Mac Os, now you could choose of very different . The John VM for PPC and Intel machines could be found in his place. For Intel my last is 3.8.17b5, maybe he have newer. Also you could use the Unix VM machines , I have the PPC ones. You could use in any folder on Mac, but the best place is Applications folder, also the .sources files could be placed into Applications folder. I do the automatic process for intall in Umbuntu. Now I waiting the repair of my clon box and can't be more useful to you, I hope could be fixed this week end. If nobody help more, I very glad to be in IRC chat to assist you.
Edgar
Ok, the current faster, better, bug fixed macintosh carbon vm is
"Squeak 3.8.18beta1U.app"
The 3.8.18 series contains the fixes from David T Lewis for clean 32bit addressing.
Macintosh applications are known as a bundle, which is a directory that contains subdirectories which contain all the files, executables,help files, resources etc to execute the application. At the top level os-x uses dot-naming conventions to indicate what it is, then the finder hides the fact it's a folder. Larger Apple applications like iDVD might be 1GB in size since the bundle folder contains help files, examples, sound tracks, clips etc.
The key thing is that one can copy this single file looking thing between directories/computers and still have a workable application, versus having to run some installer/deinstaller to move all the pieces about.
So Squeak 3.8.18beta1U.app which appears as a folder in unix or on windows has the convention that *.app is the application bundle. The Squeak application bundle contains the executable, and supporting Squeak plugins, plus it can optionally contain the image/changes/ source file
FT2Plugin.bundle which appears as a folder in unix or on windows has the convention that *.bundle is a bundle containing a static/shared library, we use these for plugins.
As Bert mentioned, for Sophie we are using the same model that Impara did for Plopp we actually stick the windows and linux VM executables and support files/dlls/scripts in the Sophie.app directory since they are ignored by the macintosh. Thus on the macintosh the user just sees the Sophie.app which double clicks. Then on windows or linux he sees the Sophie.app folder which contains a bunch of things, one being the Sophie.exe for windows, and an Sophie.sh for Linux. All the VM's then hunt in the macintosh resource application sub folder for the images/changes/source to use.
On Aug 2, 2007, at 5:51 AM, Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:
El 8/2/07 9:19 AM, "Herbert König" herbertkoenig@gmx.net escribió:
My problem is, having never seen a mac, I don't know which files to copy. I don't know how to identify a Mac executable and what additional files are necessary. I don't know if a Linux executable needs to be in /usr/bin/.... and how to identify a Linux executable.
And then how to create a link which starts the VM with that particular image.
It's funny how stupid I feel as soon as I'm leaving my known OS.
No. I only recently add Windows and Umbuntu here, so many faced the different OS problem. For Mac Os, now you could choose of very different . The John VM for PPC and Intel machines could be found in his place. For Intel my last is 3.8.17b5, maybe he have newer. Also you could use the Unix VM machines , I have the PPC ones. You could use in any folder on Mac, but the best place is Applications folder, also the .sources files could be placed into Applications folder. I do the automatic process for intall in Umbuntu. Now I waiting the repair of my clon box and can't be more useful to you, I hope could be fixed this week end. If nobody help more, I very glad to be in IRC chat to assist you.
Edgar
-- ======================================================================== === John M. McIntosh johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ======================================================================== ===
Hello John,
JMM> Macintosh applications are known as a bundle, which is a directory JMM> that contains subdirectories which contain all the files, ....
thank you for that detailed description, that was what I was looking for.
As a conclusion I won't need a link for the Mac version as OSX will present the "bundle" as a clickable app. Then provide a link for Windows and a shell script for Linux parallel to that Mac "folder" which dive into the subfolder containing the image.
Thanks
Herbert mailto:herbertkoenig@gmx.net
On 8/3/07, Herbert König herbertkoenig@gmx.net wrote:
Hello Edgar,
EJDC> Make a folder with the different VM for each OS and with your wished EJDC> Squeak.nnnn.image , Squeak.nnnn.changes, the both SqueakV39.sourcesand EJDC> SqueakV3.sources (for new and old images).
Problem is: which of the many files are the VM for mac and Linux?
The image and the changes must be the same for all 3 OS because I just use it as a note taker. Projects in projects full of workspaces, textMorphs and other morphs. No programming.
If you aren't doing any programming, then you don't need squeak.changes or SqueakV39.sources and you can save a few megs. You'll get warnings when you start up, but they shouldn't matter.
Michael.
On Aug 2, 2007, at 5:21 PM, Michael van der Gulik wrote:
If you aren't doing any programming, then you don't need squeak.changes or SqueakV39.sources and you can save a few megs. You'll get warnings when you start up, but they shouldn't matter.
Michael.
You can set image preferences to turn off the warning about missing source and changes file.
-- ======================================================================== === John M. McIntosh johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ======================================================================== ===
On Aug 2, 2007, at 3:01 , Herbert König wrote:
Hello,
I have a usb stick with a Squeak windows installation.
Now I want to make this run on a mac and Linux. From my windows point of view I would have to copy the Mac or Linux equivalent of squeak.exe.
You could take a look at the directory layout in Sophie (originally developed for Plopp). It uses a single directory structure that works on Mac, Linux, and Windows.
- Bert -
Hello Bert,
BF> You could take a look at the directory layout in Sophie (originally BF> developed for Plopp). It uses a single directory structure that works BF> on Mac, Linux, and Windows.
seems easiest to take my commercial copy of Plopp to watch this in action.
Thanks
Herbert mailto:herbertkoenig@gmx.net
On Thursday 02 August 2007 3:31 pm, Herbert König wrote:
Hello,
I have a usb stick with a Squeak windows installation.
Now I want to make this run on a mac and Linux. From my windows point of view I would have to copy the Mac or Linux equivalent of squeak.exe.
Which Linux desktop do you use? I am testing a launcher script for Linux. It works on KDE now. Often, Linux distros do not allow programs to be launched from removable devices for security reasons, so some special magic :-) is required.
Subbu
Hello Subbu,
Now I want to make this run on a mac and Linux. From my windows point of view I would have to copy the Mac or Linux equivalent of squeak.exe.
s> Which Linux desktop do you use? I am testing a launcher script for Linux. It s> works on KDE now. Often, Linux distros do not allow programs to be launched s>from removable devices for security reasons, so some special magic :-) is s> required.
The one I have is a Knoppix with KDE an I could only use this with testing.
Actually 95% of the computers I come by run windows. It just would be nice to have the same convenience of not having to install any software on other peoples on other OS'es too.
Thanks,
Herbert mailto:herbertkoenig@gmx.net
On 8/2/07, Herbert König herbertkoenig@gmx.net wrote:
Hello,
I have a usb stick with a Squeak windows installation.
Now I want to make this run on a mac and Linux. From my windows point of view I would have to copy the Mac or Linux equivalent of squeak.exe.
For Linux, you'll want "squeak" (which is the executable binary containing the VM), "vm-display-X11" and "vm-sound-null" plug-ins at the least. If you want to use sound, also include "vm-sound-OSS". If you want to run headless, also include "vm-display-null".
These files can be in the same directory as squeak.image, squeak.changes and SqueakV9.sources. If you want to put the "squeak" executable elsewhere, start it from the command prompt or shell like this:
/path/to/squeak -plugins /path/to/plugins /path/to/squeak.image
(replacing the paths with what you have set up, of course).
subbukk is correct about some versions of linux not allowing executables to be run from a removable device. To get around this, either copy the files to the hard disk, or mount the USB disk manually without using the "noexec" flag (see "man mount" for more info here - e.g. "mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/usbdisk" - the usb disk is usually emulated as a SCSI device (!)).
Also note that USB disks in my experience are quite slow. If you plan to load and save images often, copy the image to the hard disk, and when you're finished, copy them back to the USB disk.
Michael.
On Friday 03 August 2007 5:48 am, Michael van der Gulik wrote:
subbukk is correct about some versions of linux not allowing executables to be run from a removable device. To get around this, either copy the files to the hard disk, or mount the USB disk manually without using the "noexec" flag (see "man mount" for more info here - e.g. "mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/usbdisk" - the usb disk is usually emulated as a SCSI device (!)).
The exact device path will change, so it is safer to mount a USB disk labeled MYUSB with:
pmount -Ae $(blkid -o device -t LABEL=MYUSB) squeak
and open the location /media/squeak or /mnt/squeak. The "-e" option turns on execute permissions. The loginid should be a member of plugdev group to use pmount.
Subbu
Hello Michael,
MvdG> For Linux, you'll want "squeak" (which is the executable MvdG> binary containing the VM), "vm-display-X11" and "vm-sound-null"
thanks for the detailed information.
MvdG> plug-ins at the least. If you want to use sound, also include MvdG> "vm-sound-OSS". If you want to run headless, also include MvdG> "vm-display-null".
As it's a 1G stick size is not a matter. So I'll include everything.
MvdG> Also note that USB disks in my experience are quite slow.
I use a 3.6 full image. It has everything and is smaller than a 3.9. On a contemporary computer startup is about 5 seconds first start.
12 seconds on this 600MHZ P3 with USB 1.1. Small price to pay for "having it all around me" without carrying my laptop.
Regarding your other mail, I prefer being able to whip up some code if the necessity arises. BTW starting with a black screen and some warning is not the best after you just convinced someone that you won't change anything on his precious computer :-)
Cheers,
Herbert mailto:herbertkoenig@gmx.net
squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
-
Bert Freudenberg -
Edgar J. De Cleene -
Herbert König -
John M McIntosh -
Michael van der Gulik -
subbukk