Someone erased the contents of http://ftp.squeak.org/updates/updates.list
and replaced it with something Sapphire-related. That is just wrong. The update stream needs to be preserved.
El 4/23/08 9:58 PM, "Matthew Fulmer" tapplek@gmail.com escribió:
Someone erased the contents of http://ftp.squeak.org/updates/updates.list
and replaced it with something Sapphire-related. That is just wrong. The update stream needs to be preserved.
-- Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/
The Board should show some action. It's unthinkable some guy, whatever great is his name , take community resources for his own ego satisfaction.
My work is free for Squeak and only for Squeak, any other use is NOT free.
Edgar
On 24.04.2008, at 11:07, Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:
El 4/23/08 9:58 PM, "Matthew Fulmer" tapplek@gmail.com escribió:
Someone erased the contents of http://ftp.squeak.org/updates/updates.list
and replaced it with something Sapphire-related. That is just wrong. The update stream needs to be preserved.
-- Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/
The Board should show some action. It's unthinkable some guy, whatever great is his name , take community resources for his own ego satisfaction.
My work is free for Squeak and only for Squeak, any other use is NOT free.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
Stef, Alexandre, what's up with this?
- Bert -
Bad things are happening, as I was reading on IRC. Some people believe to be the owner of Squeak?.
I think the Board must take action and put bridles on the access to the repositories of official versions. A concrete record of all the people with access should be completed (or another control method), but I think that is an urgence.
Cheers.
2008/4/24 Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de:
On 24.04.2008, at 11:07, Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:
El 4/23/08 9:58 PM, "Matthew Fulmer" tapplek@gmail.com escribió:
Someone erased the contents of
http://ftp.squeak.org/updates/updates.list
and replaced it with something Sapphire-related. That is just wrong. The update stream needs to be preserved.
-- Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/
The Board should show some action. It's unthinkable some guy, whatever great is his name , take community resources for his own ego satisfaction.
My work is free for Squeak and only for Squeak, any other use is NOT free.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
Stef, Alexandre, what's up with this?
- Bert -
You know guys. I really hate to by insulted like that. When you will have done 5% of what I'm doing for Smalltalk I will let you freely insult me.
Stef
On Apr 24, 2008, at 12:55 PM, Germán Arduino wrote:
Bad things are happening, as I was reading on IRC. Some people believe to be the owner of Squeak?.
I think the Board must take action and put bridles on the access to the repositories of official versions. A concrete record of all the people with access should be completed (or another control method), but I think that is an urgence.
Cheers.
2008/4/24 Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de: On 24.04.2008, at 11:07, Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:
El 4/23/08 9:58 PM, "Matthew Fulmer" tapplek@gmail.com escribió:
Someone erased the contents of http://ftp.squeak.org/updates/updates.list
and replaced it with something Sapphire-related. That is just wrong. The update stream needs to be preserved.
-- Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/
The Board should show some action. It's unthinkable some guy, whatever great is his name , take community resources for his own ego satisfaction.
My work is free for Squeak and only for Squeak, any other use is NOT free.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
Stef, Alexandre, what's up with this?
- Bert -
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 03:40:53PM +0200, stephane ducasse wrote:
You know guys. I really hate to by insulted like that. When you will have done 5% of what I'm doing for Smalltalk I will let you freely insult me.
Stef
On Apr 24, 2008, at 12:55 PM, Germ?n Arduino wrote:
Bad things are happening, as I was reading on IRC. Some people believe to be the owner of Squeak?.
I agree with Stef. This is quite insulting and you are mis-representing what I or someone else may have said on IRC, as well as giving that forum a bad face. Please either explain yourself or retract your statement.
I wasn't talking about Stef nor other people in particular. I respect a lot the work of Stef and the work of all the people that contributes with Squeak. May be my English don't help to express myself properly.
What I want to comment can't be focused on Stef because he isn't on the IRC regularly. I meant that in last times I was seeing on IRC very passionate discussions, trying to imposse things, instead of trying to find a common benefit.
Examples: a lot, and honestly I prefer not name none, but each person should know what was saying and the logs are on place to read.
Then, my other paragraph in the "problematic" mails was meaning that, in my humble opinion and as I already commented before, the Board should take action/control/participation on the releases and, in summary, about the status of the downloads of Squeak, our main asset.
Hope this explain myself better.
2008/4/24 Matthew Fulmer tapplek@gmail.com:
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 03:40:53PM +0200, stephane ducasse wrote:
You know guys. I really hate to by insulted like that. When you will have done 5% of what I'm doing for Smalltalk I will let you freely insult me.
Stef
On Apr 24, 2008, at 12:55 PM, Germ?n Arduino wrote:
Bad things are happening, as I was reading on IRC. Some people believe
to
be the owner of Squeak?.
I agree with Stef. This is quite insulting and you are mis-representing what I or someone else may have said on IRC, as well as giving that forum a bad face. Please either explain yourself or retract your statement.
-- Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/
Repeat, may be I send my mail in the wrong place, but I'm not insultating you nor neither other. The people who know me would testify I'm a respectful person.
2008/4/24 stephane ducasse stephane.ducasse@free.fr:
You know guys. I really hate to by insulted like that. When you will have done 5% of what I'm doing for Smalltalk I will let you freely insult me.
Stef
On Apr 24, 2008, at 12:55 PM, Germán Arduino wrote:
Bad things are happening, as I was reading on IRC. Some people believe to
be the owner of Squeak?.
I think the Board must take action and put bridles on the access to the repositories of official versions. A concrete record of all the people with access should be completed (or another control method), but I think that is an urgence.
Cheers.
2008/4/24 Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de: On 24.04.2008, at 11:07, Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:
El 4/23/08 9:58 PM, "Matthew Fulmer" tapplek@gmail.com escribió:
Someone erased the contents of http://ftp.squeak.org/updates/updates.list
and replaced it with something Sapphire-related. That is just wrong. The update stream needs to be preserved.
-- Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/
The Board should show some action. It's unthinkable some guy, whatever great is his name , take community resources for his own ego satisfaction.
My work is free for Squeak and only for Squeak, any other use is NOT free.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
Stef, Alexandre, what's up with this?
- Bert -
I can't imagine how such a minor mistake would make some people so angry. What i see, is the lack of organization and fragile system design which allows a single person to make substantional damage to public resources, even by mistake. Let's not blame each other on who did or what, lets better think about, how to make better system be more protected from such mistakes in future and yet still easy to manage in collaborative environment.
In my country there is a game called "telefono descompuesto" (broken phone). Goes this way: a line of persons forms and 2 more persons are at the ends of the line. One of the persons at the endo of the line creates a complex message and says it in the ear of the first person of the line so the second person can't hear it. Then the first person pass this message to the second person, also in the ear. This process continue until the message arrives to the person at the other end of the line. The message is always inexact, most times funny and has nothing in common with the original message.
So the phrase "esto ya parece teléfono descompuesto" (this is like a broken phone) applies to situations where something is misunderstood as a result of serveral persons repeating his own version of the original fact.
Cheers, Miguel Cobá
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 11:12 AM, Igor Stasenko siguctua@gmail.com wrote:
I can't imagine how such a minor mistake would make some people so angry. What i see, is the lack of organization and fragile system design which allows a single person to make substantional damage to public resources, even by mistake. Let's not blame each other on who did or what, lets better think about, how to make better system be more protected from such mistakes in future and yet still easy to manage in collaborative environment.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
Wonders if everyboday is rather stressed!
-----Original Message----- From: squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org]On Behalf Of Igor Stasenko Sent: 24 April 2008 5:12 PM To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Update Stream Gone? Replaced with Sapphire? What?
I can't imagine how such a minor mistake would make some people so angry. What i see, is the lack of organization and fragile system design which allows a single person to make substantional damage to public resources, even by mistake. Let's not blame each other on who did or what, lets better think about, how to make better system be more protected from such mistakes in future and yet still easy to manage in collaborative environment.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
No problema, I believe you :) let us focus on good energy. All the energy we spent (sometimes inadequately in the past) were for doing a better Smalltalk to share with people. We will continue but we need more fun and freedom.
Stef
Repeat, may be I send my mail in the wrong place, but I'm not insultating you nor neither other. The people who know me would testify I'm a respectful person.
2008/4/24 stephane ducasse stephane.ducasse@free.fr: You know guys. I really hate to by insulted like that. When you will have done 5% of what I'm doing for Smalltalk I will let you freely insult me.
Stef
On Apr 24, 2008, at 12:55 PM, Germán Arduino wrote:
Bad things are happening, as I was reading on IRC. Some people believe to be the owner of Squeak?.
I think the Board must take action and put bridles on the access to the repositories of official versions. A concrete record of all the people with access should be completed (or another control method), but I think that is an urgence.
Cheers.
2008/4/24 Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de: On 24.04.2008, at 11:07, Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:
El 4/23/08 9:58 PM, "Matthew Fulmer" tapplek@gmail.com escribió:
Someone erased the contents of http://ftp.squeak.org/updates/updates.list
and replaced it with something Sapphire-related. That is just wrong. The update stream needs to be preserved.
-- Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/
The Board should show some action. It's unthinkable some guy, whatever great is his name , take community resources for his own ego satisfaction.
My work is free for Squeak and only for Squeak, any other use is NOT free.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
Stef, Alexandre, what's up with this?
- Bert -
Bad things are happening, as I was reading on IRC. Some people believe to be the owner of Squeak?.
So apparently IRC is becoming the places to convey rumors.... Excellent like that I will stay away from it.
You know sapphire (soon named diamond) is public and open http://sapphire.gforge.inria.fr/ and we are not interested to steal squeak, we let it to you guys. Have fun with it.
For sapphire, may be we will fail, may be we will succeed. But at the end we will have tried and this is important to break the tyranny of the past.
Here is the sapphire manifesto taken from the ugly wiki of the forge: http://gforge.inria.fr/plugins/wiki/index.php?id=1211&type=g Sapphire aka Smalltalk burn the disc pack/professional open source Smalltalk. . It wants to produce a clean and lean open-source cool Smalltalk. We want Sapphire to be the obvious choice for professional development in an open-source Smalltalk. Sapphire wants to take a fresh look at the Smalltalk philosophy and current implementations
Ideally in 3 years from now we would like to have a small kernel and some cool packages that we can load on top. We will not duplicate effort with Mini Image but build on top. The current focus is not to produce such a kernel but good packages.
• Sapphire wants to help people invent the future. • Sapphire is a fork. It will start from Squeak but Sapphire is a fork: Do not expect Etoy/Nebraska to work in Sapphire. • We will try to avoid to reinvent the wheel but will change if change is better. We will produce a set of good packages that will be able to be loaded on a micro/tiny kernel. Still Sapphire wants to be stable to make sure that we can produce ideas based on it. An important test for Sapphire is that Seaside http://www.seaside.st/ should run on Sapphire!
Everybody is welcome: if you want to join just send me an email (stephane.ducasse@inria.fr or to the mailing-list). You can register to the forge (request for the team ADAM) and I will add you the project
Sapphire manisfesto • Better for the better • Beauty to learn from • Not backward compatible • Clean, lean and fast
Stef
El 4/24/08 11:18 AM, "stephane ducasse" stephane.ducasse@free.fr escribió:
we are not interested to steal squeak,
So why you start of some with bad license, only for under 12, full of crap ? (But is what we love !)
we let it to you guys.
At last.
Have fun with it
Sometimes we have :=)
Ideally in 3 years from now we would like to have a small kernel and some cool
packages that we can load on top.
And if still we don't have a small kernel , based on Pavel or Craig work with all we have now, all we have in past (including Nebraska, Etoys and his successors) all talented people share with us WITHOUT DO MY WAY OR DIE as some do, I go to Rome to beg pardon to Pope
Edgar
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 11:46:33AM -0300, Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:
El 4/24/08 11:18 AM, "stephane ducasse" stephane.ducasse@free.fr escribi?:
we are not interested to steal squeak,
So why you start of some with bad license, only for under 12, full of crap ? (But is what we love !)
Contributions are valuable. They are not crap. Do not call them such.
Ideally in 3 years from now we would like to have a small kernel and some cool
packages that we can load on top.
And if still we don't have a small kernel , based on Pavel or Craig work with all we have now, all we have in past (including Nebraska, Etoys and his successors) all talented people share with us WITHOUT DO MY WAY OR DIE as some do, I go to Rome to beg pardon to Pope
Nobody here has this attitude. Please stop accusing people of bad motives. You are hurting people by saying things like this. Please stop
El 4/24/08 12:08 PM, "Matthew Fulmer" tapplek@gmail.com escribió:
Contributions are valuable. They are not crap. Do not call them such.
I don't think any in Squeak or any honest contribution is crap. But if you read this list , you could see some think this way. Remember they said Nebraska is crap. Still my students open wide his eyes showing how in 3.10 people could connect two others computers and send simple morphs...
Nobody here has this attitude. Please stop accusing people of bad motives. You are hurting people by saying things like this. Please stop
Well , I finish this. No point as bad players continue his ways and I can't do nothing to change.
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 06:50:03PM -0300, Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:
El 4/24/08 12:08 PM, "Matthew Fulmer" tapplek@gmail.com escribi?:
Contributions are valuable. They are not crap. Do not call them such.
I don't think any in Squeak or any honest contribution is crap. But if you read this list , you could see some think this way. Remember they said Nebraska is crap.
Nobody thinks "Nebraska is crap". Some have observed that Nebraska does not currently work in 3.10, or that Nebraska would be more appropriate as an add-on package, but that is not the same as saying "It is crap". Don't take value judgments too seriously. As the English saying goes: "One man's trash is another man's treasure"
Well , I finish this. No point as bad players continue his ways and I can't do nothing to change.
I don't believe we have these "bad players" of which you speak. Try to view people in a more positive light. People are usually nicer if you assume they are nice.
Edgar
We are not saying that nebraska is crap. It can be fun. Now may be your students find it fun, however when I show squeak to students I would like to be proud of it and when they find Morph (with more than 1000 methods) or see that compiler is dependent of the UI then if they are smart they will think that I'm stupid, that Smalltalk is shit....So I never lie to students and tell them Smalltalk is a cool idea but Squeak needs some works to really shine and that we are working on it. Smart guys can then choose and do not consider Smalltalk = Squeak = Shit. Now in Sapphire we simply do not ***accept*** anymore to lose our time maintaining experiences from the past. I hate to see halospec defined in Preferences, to see all the dependencies introduced by etoy. Etoy is a cool experience and a successful one (I translated in french the etoy book so I do not have to convince anybody that I supported it) but it does not mean that we have to live under its tyranny. We maintained 3.9 paying attention to break as less as possible. We removed dilaectStream and other tiles based experiences that polluted all the AST. Experimenting is cool but when an experience is done either it should be cleaned up and lead to production code or we should drop it. Now we are free (open-source :)). You do not have to use what we will produce - just read our books :) But we will not lie to people, with what we are doing: no etoy, no nebraska, no experiences will be maintained. It does not mean that people will not be able to work to load back etoy into it but this is not our concerns. The only constraint we fix to ourselves is that Seaside runs on it and make sure that people will be able to develop and invent their future with a clean and lean Smalltalk.
We always have in mind the quote of dan stating that a single man should be able to understand Smalltalk, with a clean system with beautiful interfaces this should be possible.
Stef
On Apr 24, 2008, at 11:50 PM, Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:
El 4/24/08 12:08 PM, "Matthew Fulmer" tapplek@gmail.com escribió:
Contributions are valuable. They are not crap. Do not call them such.
I don't think any in Squeak or any honest contribution is crap. But if you read this list , you could see some think this way. Remember they said Nebraska is crap. Still my students open wide his eyes showing how in 3.10 people could connect two others computers and send simple morphs...
Nobody here has this attitude. Please stop accusing people of bad motives. You are hurting people by saying things like this. Please stop
Well , I finish this. No point as bad players continue his ways and I can't do nothing to change.
Stef,
Appreciate what you are doing here. I think a fork can bring renewed focus and energy.
--David
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 9:20 AM, stephane ducasse stephane.ducasse@free.fr wrote:
Edgar
We are not saying that nebraska is crap. It can be fun. Now may be your students find it fun, however when I show squeak to students I would like to be proud of it and when they find Morph (with more than 1000 methods) or see that compiler is dependent of the UI then if they are smart they will think that I'm stupid, that Smalltalk is shit....So I never lie to students and tell them Smalltalk is a cool idea but Squeak needs some works to really shine and that we are working on it. Smart guys can then choose and do not consider Smalltalk = Squeak = Shit. Now in Sapphire we simply do not ***accept*** anymore to lose our time maintaining experiences from the past. I hate to see halospec defined in Preferences, to see all the dependencies introduced by etoy. Etoy is a cool experience and a successful one (I translated in french the etoy book so I do not have to convince anybody that I supported it) but it does not mean that we have to live under its tyranny. We maintained 3.9 paying attention to break as less as possible. We removed dilaectStream and other tiles based experiences that polluted all the AST. Experimenting is cool but when an experience is done either it should be cleaned up and lead to production code or we should drop it. Now we are free (open-source :)). You do not have to use what we will produce - just read our books :) But we will not lie to people, with what we are doing: no etoy, no nebraska, no experiences will be maintained. It does not mean that people will not be able to work to load back etoy into it but this is not our concerns. The only constraint we fix to ourselves is that Seaside runs on it and make sure that people will be able to develop and invent their future with a clean and lean Smalltalk.
We always have in mind the quote of dan stating that a single man should be able to understand Smalltalk, with a clean system with beautiful interfaces this should be possible.
Stef
On Apr 24, 2008, at 11:50 PM, Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:
El 4/24/08 12:08 PM, "Matthew Fulmer" tapplek@gmail.com escribió:
Contributions are valuable. They are not crap. Do not call them such.
I don't think any in Squeak or any honest contribution is crap. But if you read this list , you could see some think this way. Remember they said Nebraska is crap. Still my students open wide his eyes showing how in 3.10 people could connect two others computers and send simple morphs...
Nobody here has this attitude. Please stop accusing people of bad motives. You are hurting people by saying things like this. Please stop
Well , I finish this. No point as bad players continue his ways and I
can't
do nothing to change.
David Mitchell wrote:
Stef,
Appreciate what you are doing here. I think a fork can bring renewed focus and energy.
--David
I think that this fork has a number of similar goals to those expressed by the majority of those folks that I have met seeking to contribute to 3.11.
I think that the 3.11 effort is focussing upon tools to facilitate carving things up carefully, while the saffire approach of sacrificing backwards compatibility upfront, enables carving to begin right away.
The 3.11 unofficial team has a goal to move things forward for all squeak versions, in order to promote collaboratiion between the different user communities.
I am hoping Saphire will come up with lots of ideas we can make use of...
regards
Keith
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 4:20 PM, stephane ducasse stephane.ducasse@free.fr wrote:
Edgar
We are not saying that nebraska is crap. It can be fun. Now may be your students find it fun, however when I show squeak to students I would like to be proud of it and when they find Morph (with more than 1000 methods) or see that compiler is dependent of the UI then if they are smart they will think that I'm stupid, that Smalltalk is shit....So I never lie to students and tell them Smalltalk is a cool idea but Squeak needs some works to really shine and that we are working on it. Smart guys can then choose and do not consider Smalltalk = Squeak = Shit. Now in Sapphire we simply do not ***accept*** anymore to lose our time maintaining experiences from the past. I hate to see halospec defined in Preferences, to see all the dependencies introduced by etoy. Etoy is a cool experience and a successful one (I translated in french the etoy book so I do not have to convince anybody that I supported it)
but it does not mean that we have to live under its tyranny.
But how then to understand these words from the interview with Alan Kay? (http://www.acmqueue.org/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=273...)
"Basically what happened is this vehicle became more and more a programmer's vehicle and less and less a children's vehicle—the version that got put out, Smalltalk '80, I don't think it was ever programmed by a child. I don't think it could have been programmed by a child because it had lost some of its amenities, even as it gained pragmatic power.
So the death of Smalltalk in a way came as soon as it got recognized by real programmers as being something useful; they made it into more of their own image, and it started losing its nice end-user features." Regards, Nikolay Suslov
We maintained 3.9 paying attention to break as less as possible. We removed dilaectStream and other tiles based experiences that polluted all the AST. Experimenting is cool but when an experience is done either it should be cleaned up and lead to production code or we should drop it. Now we are free (open-source :)). You do not have to use what we will produce - just read our books :) But we will not lie to people, with what we are doing: no etoy, no nebraska, no experiences will be maintained. It does not mean that people will not be able to work to load back etoy into it but this is not our concerns. The only constraint we fix to ourselves is that Seaside runs on it and make sure that people will be able to develop and invent their future with a clean and lean Smalltalk.
We always have in mind the quote of dan stating that a single man should be able to understand Smalltalk, with a clean system with beautiful interfaces this should be possible.
Stef
El 4/25/08 11:20 AM, "stephane ducasse" stephane.ducasse@free.fr escribió:
Edgar
We are not saying that nebraska is crap. It can be fun. Now may be your students find it fun, however when I show squeak to students I would like to be proud of it and when they find Morph (with more than 1000 methods) or see that compiler is dependent of the UI then if they are smart they will think that I'm stupid, that Smalltalk is shit....So I never lie to students and tell them Smalltalk is a cool idea but Squeak needs some works to really shine and that we are working on it. Smart guys can then choose and do not consider Smalltalk = Squeak = Shit. Now in Sapphire we simply do not ***accept*** anymore to lose our time maintaining experiences from the past. I hate to see halospec defined in Preferences, to see all the dependencies introduced by etoy. Etoy is a cool experience and a successful one (I translated in french the etoy book so I do not have to convince anybody that I supported it) but it does not mean that we have to live under its tyranny. We maintained 3.9 paying attention to break as less as possible. We removed dilaectStream and other tiles based experiences that polluted all the AST. Experimenting is cool but when an experience is done either it should be cleaned up and lead to production code or we should drop it. Now we are free (open-source :)). You do not have to use what we will produce - just read our books :) But we will not lie to people, with what we are doing: no etoy, no nebraska, no experiences will be maintained. It does not mean that people will not be able to work to load back etoy into it but this is not our concerns. The only constraint we fix to ourselves is that Seaside runs on it and make sure that people will be able to develop and invent their future with a clean and lean Smalltalk.
We always have in mind the quote of dan stating that a single man should be able to understand Smalltalk, with a clean system with beautiful interfaces this should be possible.
Steph:
I apologize by bad temper.
I admire all your work and long support of Squeak and other duties Smalltalk related.
Also I know Squeak need polish.
I do my best for help, sometimes I have too much passion and few brain, excuse.
I could remove Etoys for 3.10, maybe not the cool way Juan do in his Morphic 3.0 image.
As seems rough to the time, Ralph decide keep Nebraska and Etoys one Squeak version more and was a wise decision.
Nebraska have some glitches, also his successor in NetMorph works of Mashahi Umesawa http://swikis.ddo.jp/NetMorph
Etoys could also have his successor in OLPC or others people work.
Both go away in 3.11 or any next Squeak and people should decide of enhance, maintain or abandon they once we move to loadable versions in squeaksource.
Saying another Smalltalk version is best because could run Seaside is a short goal.
Maybe Aida/Scribo could bet Seaside or another web framework arise and bet both Aida and Seaside...
Having a good way for doing commercial web is not enough IMHO.
You say we should have fun, I try to have all in FunSqueak.
Could be better ? Oh yes, I waiting feedback and help.
Modular ? Small ? I try SqueakLight, both Pavel and Craig bet me in a way I know never could do same as they do.
So I try to reshape Morph, in maybe 5 to 7 logical packages which could be loaded on top of "Squeak 4.0" any this becomes.
And as Alan say , try to be part of the future.
Forks could be a good or bad thing , I don't know. Linux have thousands and Squeak only few.
My last is again beg pardon.
Edgar
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
Luckily clever people did not lose yet the squeak community. May be I did a bad manipulation with one of my unix scripts.
Now is there a backup of the update.list file
Stef, Alexandre, what's up with this?
- Bert -
Hi!
stephane ducasse stephane.ducasse@free.fr wrote:
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
Luckily clever people did not lose yet the squeak community. May be I did a bad manipulation with one of my unix scripts.
Now is there a backup of the update.list file
I have fixed it. We have backups so I put the previous file back. Renamed your file to Sapphire-updates.list I think.
regards, Göran
Thanks goran
Could you do me a favor: - I just updated the update file that I found on my hard-disc so may be this is not the latest one. Could you reput the latest backed up file? - Can you remove the sapphire update? We have our own update stream.
BTW I hope to see at Amsterdam: dont you want to do a presentation of Gjallar?
Stef
On Apr 24, 2008, at 3:43 PM, goran@krampe.se wrote:
Hi!
stephane ducasse stephane.ducasse@free.fr wrote:
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
Luckily clever people did not lose yet the squeak community. May be I did a bad manipulation with one of my unix scripts.
Now is there a backup of the update.list file
I have fixed it. We have backups so I put the previous file back. Renamed your file to Sapphire-updates.list I think.
regards, Göran
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 04:11:00PM +0200, stephane ducasse wrote:
Thanks goran
Could you do me a favor:
- I just updated the update file that I found on my hard-disc so may be
this is not the latest one. Could you reput the latest backed up file?
- Can you remove the sapphire update? We have our own update stream.
Thanks for finding and fixing the problem so quickly.
On 24.04.2008, at 15:39, stephane ducasse wrote:
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
Luckily clever people did not lose yet the squeak community. May be I did a bad manipulation with one of my unix scripts.
Now is there a backup of the update.list file
Göran just fixed it.
- Bert -
Dear Edgar I thought that you would have been a bit more trusting people that did much more than the average in the past for Smalltalk. But this does not count nowadays You could have proposed to look for the updates.list files that I incidently destroy. But I found it on my disc and I already replace it on the server.
Thanks for your so friendly reaction. This is a gift from you.
Stef
PS: just a side note first your work is MIT so you do not have control with it second do not worry I will never steal your "work"
Someone erased the contents of http://ftp.squeak.org/updates/updates.list
and replaced it with something Sapphire-related. That is just wrong. The update stream needs to be preserved.
-- Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/
The Board should show some action. It's unthinkable some guy, whatever great is his name , take community resources for his own ego satisfaction.
My work is free for Squeak and only for Squeak, any other use is NOT free.
Edgar
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 11:07 AM, Edgar J. De Cleene edgardec2001@yahoo.com.ar wrote:
The Board should show some action. It's unthinkable some guy, whatever great is his name , take community resources for his own ego satisfaction.
Hey, what are you talking about? I don't know what happened but it's just a mistake. The Sapphire's developers *never* intended to do anything bad to Squeak. The mistake is already fixed. You don't have to insult anyone... We just want to have fun programming in Smalltalk, not destroy the Squeak community which contains a lot of smart and friendly guys. Please do not judge that fast.
Here are some fun videos about judging too quickly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkNkbvvyH3M http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWH5nbrnndY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXnTpOgCn5c http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvqzjsiSs2c http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXt7Z32stB0
Edgar J. De Cleene a écrit :
El 4/23/08 9:58 PM, "Matthew Fulmer" tapplek@gmail.com escribió:
Someone erased the contents of http://ftp.squeak.org/updates/updates.list
and replaced it with something Sapphire-related. That is just wrong. The update stream needs to be preserved.
-- Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/
The Board should show some action. It's unthinkable some guy, whatever great is his name , take community resources for his own ego satisfaction.
My work is free for Squeak and only for Squeak, any other use is NOT free.
BTW Edgar, if you are releasing your Squeak modifications under the MIT licence, your work could be used in another Squeak fork without problem.
-- Serge Stinckwich http://doesnotunderstand.free.fr/
what?
May be this is a mistake with my script.
Stef
On Apr 24, 2008, at 2:58 AM, Matthew Fulmer wrote:
Someone erased the contents of http://ftp.squeak.org/updates/updates.list
and replaced it with something Sapphire-related. That is just wrong. The update stream needs to be preserved.
-- Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/
Sorry if my comment was bad concatenated here. I don't were talking aboun a simple error that any can do, else if of the last things happening with last versions and lot of things broken.
I will try to express myself better in the thread started by Matthew.
Cheers.
2008/4/24 stephane ducasse stephane.ducasse@free.fr:
what?
May be this is a mistake with my script.
Stef
On Apr 24, 2008, at 2:58 AM, Matthew Fulmer wrote:
Someone erased the contents of
http://ftp.squeak.org/updates/updates.list
and replaced it with something Sapphire-related. That is just wrong. The update stream needs to be preserved.
-- Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 05:58:26PM -0700, Matthew Fulmer wrote:
Someone erased the contents of http://ftp.squeak.org/updates/updates.list
and replaced it with something Sapphire-related. That is just wrong. The update stream needs to be preserved.
It was pointed out to me that the phrase "That is just wrong" could be taken in an accusatory tone. I'm sorry for saying that; I should have written this email a little less hastily. Sorry for any confusion.
No problem matthew, your email was ok. I messed up with my unix scripts. Igor the problem is that I messed up because I was maintainer of 3.9 and one file went in the wrong folder. No more than that. I'm happy to know that there is a backup :)
Stef
Someone erased the contents of http://ftp.squeak.org/updates/updates.list
and replaced it with something Sapphire-related. That is just wrong. The update stream needs to be preserved.
It was pointed out to me that the phrase "That is just wrong" could be taken in an accusatory tone. I'm sorry for saying that; I should have written this email a little less hastily. Sorry for any confusion.
-- Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/
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