On 2012-11-27 7:07 PM, H. Hirzel wrote:

Great work. Nice and fluid. :-)

Yea, that really works. Nice work Twitter. I have the logo at 250x250px. That, combined with the fluid layout resolves in any cellphone, tablet, or PC screen.

I cannot judge if chocolatey is included...

Probably needs some more attentions in terms of use of colors...

It is grayish. Yea. I knew it was a problem, but I was afraid of doing something to make it look lurid. But now that you've made me think about it, those two gray background areas need a warm hue. Maybe something from the color palette of the old site. That should help.

Why are there four balloons instead of one in the logo?

Well, I wanted the balloon in the background with the Squeak logo in the foreground. I hit on the idea of a Warhol print where he repeated a single image several times with bright colors, but with low line definition. I think it gives a flickering background allowing the Squeak logo to float above.

I figure this is a good basic structure for the site: Altitude with Bootstrap. The the rest is tweaking. Such as, the pages are just lists of links right now, so those pages need more.

I'm not going to lie to you, I'm quite taken with my logo. But, hey, I'm a team player. All anybody has to do to make a logo is fill a 250x250px box. If people want to submit logo gifs, great. The community can choose the one it likes best.

Chris

On 2012-11-28 2:04 AM, karl ramberg wrote:

Here is a logo made by Bert

Karl

I've uploaded it. You can see it on the site:

http://box3.squeak.org:8624/

Chris

On 2012-11-28, at 14:20, "David T. Lewis" lewis@mail.msen.com wrote:

On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 06:44:50AM -0500, Chris Cunnington wrote:

...

On 2012-11-28 2:04 AM, karl ramberg wrote:

...

Here is a logo made by Bert

Karl

I've uploaded it. You can see it on the site:

http://box3.squeak.org:8624/

Chris

Our community has been around for quite a while now, so it is worth noting for our newer members that the Squeak logo is the original creation of Tim Rowledge (http://rowledge.org/tim/squeak/index.html).

I do think that Bert has made the nicest rendition of the logo ever :)

Dave

Really?! *blush*

I'd still call that one an icon rather than a logo, though. It's used on John's Mac VMs (I also made an aqua-blue version for Ian's). I should make one for Cog. Actually, would be easier for someone who still has access to Photoshop (I did that back in my University days). I do have the PSDs around.

Anyway, for a logo rather than an icon I think I like this one better:

(also serves as a reminder for the red-yellow-blue mouse buttons)

But as you say, the cute squeaky mouse in cat's clothing is Tim's originally. And I chuckled seeing Chris's fake Warhol; not a bad idea either, IMHO.

- Bert -

On 28-11-2012, at 8:26 AM, Chris Cunnington smalltalktelevision@gmail.com wrote:

http://box3.squeak.org:8624/

Updated again to the tricolor logo.

Just replied to this and got held in moderation because I included a graphic. If the list mod likes to release it from bondage that would be nice.

tim -- tim Rowledge; tim@rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Long computations that yield zero are probably all for naught.

http://box3.squeak.org:8624/

Updated to Tim's graphic.

Chris

On 2012-11-28 3:59 PM, Darius Clarke wrote:

Now to get the eyes to watch the mouse ;-)

Chris, how would you like to receive some suggestions/help for building on what you have here for the home page?

Screenshot graphic, html, just text?

• Darius

On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 12:54 PM, Chris Cunnington <smalltalktelevision@gmail.com mailto:smalltalktelevision@gmail.com> wrote:

http://box3.squeak.org:8624/

Updated to Tim's graphic.

Chris

Absolutely. I'm all ears. Please do. I'm happy to receive help in any manner you'd like to provide it: screenshot, html, etc.

Chris

On 2012-11-28 4:21 PM, Darius Clarke wrote:

My little contribution to the current home page was this segment:

Take Part in the Innovation

*Discover* Squeak's features http://squeak.org/Features/. *Get Squeak* by downloading http://squeak.org/Download/ it to your computer. *Learn* the Smalltalk http://squeak.org/Smalltalk/ language. *Explore* the documentation http://squeak.org/Documentation/. *Join* the community http://squeak.org/Community/ to find common interests. *Participate* in the teams http://squeak.org/Community/Teams/. *Stay current* Read the latest news from The Weekly Squeak http://weeklysqueak.wordpress.com/.

To me, it's the core of why there's a website. And, it quickly introduces to the site visitor to what they can do next, in a linear, understandable way, with what they've learned from their first visit. They are all action items. The segment also, probably, answers most of the visitor's first questions.

Maybe it could be the top left tile in your new grid of tiles? But, I'm open to suggestions too.

I also think we can learn from looking at the home pages of other dynamic languages' websites' home pages. but let me know if you've already done that. I could suggest some things from them if you wish.

• Darius

That looks like a good idea. If you don't mind, it's getting close to the end of the day here, and swapping the images is easier than the code, so I'll add this idea tomorrow.

I have'nt looked at any other sites than Python and just briefly. There's also (fresh from Hacker News today):

http://www.bootstraphero.com/the-big-badass-list-of-twitter-bootstrap-resour...

Bootstrap has a lot of resources. And how.

Chris

Hello Chris and Darius

with the part Darius suggested added 'Take Part In The Innovation' (TPITI) there is now quite some redundancy with the menu at the left. e.g

Project Links (Menu) ==> 'Discover Squeak's projects' (TPITI) Documentation (Menu) ==> 'Explore the documentation' (TPITI) Developer Links (Menu) ==> 'Find tools via the developer links.' (TPITI)

Web users normally look at the menu and need to to be told so.

Maybe the TPITI info and the menu can be combined resulting in a more attractive wording of the menu entries (verb plus object)?

This would as well shift up the six boxes below which makes it more attractive at first glance as everything fits on a regular screen?

--Hannes

On 11/28/12, Darius Clarke socinian@gmail.com wrote:

No rush. Take my suggestions only as your time allows. Even your previous 500 is appreciated by me just to know you're trying. :)

I'm really looking forward to using Bootstrap for my own projects now. ( I can use that link. :)

• Darius

On 2012-12-04 1:06 AM, H. Hirzel wrote:

Hello Chris and Darius

with the part Darius suggested added 'Take Part In The Innovation' (TPITI) there is now quite some redundancy with the menu at the left. e.g

Project Links (Menu) ==> 'Discover Squeak's projects' (TPITI) Documentation (Menu) ==> 'Explore the documentation' (TPITI) Developer Links (Menu) ==> 'Find tools via the developer links.' (TPITI)

Web users normally look at the menu and need to to be told so.

Maybe the TPITI info and the menu can be combined resulting in a more attractive wording of the menu entries (verb plus object)?

This would as well shift up the six boxes below which makes it more attractive at first glance as everything fits on a regular screen?

--Hannes

You'd like to remove the TPITI and style the menu as Smalltalk code. I'm not sure either of those is a good idea. Casey wanted more color and I'm not sure that's a good idea either. I don't think the webpage should be the attraction. A little dull is probably better.

I figure a site has to work on two levels: immediate impression; and, subsequent usefulness. People being people, they like a bit of noise and chaos in the immediate impression. The current squeak.org gives a great first impression, because its so busy and colorful. It's utility isn't great. The redundancy of the TPITI, which you see as a defect, I see as a contributing to immediate impression. The items in the TPITI overlap with the menu and emphasize the menu.

I also think that people are attracted by what they can only partially see. To give you an example from cinema, a director will often put something in the way of an object the audience wants to see to increase their desire to see it. An example from Lord Of The Rings - The Return Of The King: after much preamble about the witch king of Angmar riding a dragon, our first view is obscured by a castle spire. Spielberg does it all the time. Obscure to increase curiosity.

My point is that because you can only see half of the six areas at the bottom of the screen, your curiosity is nettled, and you scroll down to see the rest of the page. Did you not do exactly that, Hannes? Isn't that what you are protesting against being forced to do? You would like to see the whole page without having to scroll. I would like to see this "defect" as prompting people to interact with the site.

Chris

On 2012-12-05 1:25 PM, H. Hirzel wrote:

Hi Chris

Thank you for taking the time to answer.

On 12/5/12, Chris Cunnington smalltalktelevision@gmail.com wrote:

...

On 2012-12-04 1:06 AM, H. Hirzel wrote:

...

Hello Chris and Darius

with the part Darius suggested added 'Take Part In The Innovation' (TPITI) there is now quite some redundancy with the menu at the left. e.g

Project Links (Menu) ==> 'Discover Squeak's projects' (TPITI) Documentation (Menu) ==> 'Explore the documentation' (TPITI) Developer Links (Menu) ==> 'Find tools via the developer links.' (TPITI)

Web users normally look at the menu and need to to be told so.

Maybe the TPITI info and the menu can be combined resulting in a more attractive wording of the menu entries (verb plus object)?

This would as well shift up the six boxes below which makes it more attractive at first glance as everything fits on a regular screen?

--Hannes

You'd like to remove the TPITI and style the menu as Smalltalk code. I'm not sure either of those is a good idea.

OK, fine. No objection.

Casey wanted more color and I'm

...

not sure that's a good idea either. I don't think the webpage should be the attraction. A little dull is probably better.

Eeh?

...

I figure a site has to work on two levels: immediate impression; and, subsequent usefulness. People being people, they like a bit of noise and chaos in the immediate impression.

Really? Where is the noise?

The current squeak.org gives a great

...

first impression, because its so busy and colorful. It's utility isn't great.

The redundancy of the TPITI, which you see as a defect, I see as

...

a contributing to immediate impression. The items in the TPITI overlap with the menu and emphasize the menu.

This is my main point. What people see is the TPITI section which is redundant with a menu which people expect in any case visiting a web site for an IDE/computer language. The standard things. And the non-scrollable area at the top isn't used properly either. So the first impression is to see half-finished redundant stuff and and a nearly empty horizontal menu.

The important news are obstructed and look like an after-thought.

...

I also think that people are attracted by what they can only partially see. To give you an example from cinema, a director will often put something in the way of an object the audience wants to see to increase their desire to see it. An example from Lord Of The Rings - The Return Of The King: after much preamble about the witch king of Angmar riding a dragon, our first view is obscured by a castle spire. Spielberg does it all the time. Obscure to increase curiosity.

This happens with the 6 intro boxes and the 'more' buttons. Very neat.

...

My point is that because you can only see half of the six areas at the bottom of the screen, your curiosity is nettled, and you scroll down to see the rest of the page. Did you not do exactly that, Hannes?

Sure, because I was forced to. Not particularly great.

Isn't

...

that what you are protesting against being forced to do?

Yes

You would like

...

to see the whole page without having to scroll.

Yes.

I would like to see this

...

"defect" as prompting people to interact with the site.

Interaction is good and great but not this type of cheap interaction.

We actually have 6 'more' buttons.

another proposal

Why can-t we move TPITI into one of the six boxes and have a relative newcomer write a short article how to get into Squeak....?

--Hannes

...

Chris

OK. I'll make a change and upload it tomorrow. I'll make the TPITI one of the six boxes and we'll see how it looks.

Chris

On 6 December 2012 11:43, Geert Claes geert.wl.claes@gmail.com wrote:

I just noticed the discussion about a revamped Squeak.org which is great and I like the idea of using Bootstrap! Anyhow make sure to point (especially beginners) to the World of Smalltalk (world.st) and the aggregated online mailing lists at forum.world.st

planet.squeak.org probably needs a nice place on the front page too. (And and and and....)

frank

On 6 December 2012 12:37, Geert Claes geert.wl.claes@gmail.com wrote:

Frank Shearar-3 wrote

...

planet.squeak.org probably needs a nice place on the front page too. (And and and and....)

Maybe, planet.squeak.org is similar to planet.smalltalk.org but when I tried integrating these I found that they are a pita because their look-n-feel doesn't match.

You could just read the feeds directly and render them both in a uniform manner, couldn't you? But anyway, I'd just be happy with a hint that it's there at all.

What did you mean with the and and and and ... ?

The danger of overwhelming Chris Cunnington with suggestions, all of which simply MUST be on the front page, at the top. In bold. Maybe even blinking.

frank

On 06-12-2012, at 4:54 AM, Frank Shearar frank.shearar@gmail.com wrote:

Maybe even blinking.

No - no blinking. The Doctor warned us all what would happen if we blink; "Your life could depend on this. Don't blink. Don't even blink. Blink and you're dead"

tim -- tim Rowledge; tim@rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Useful random insult:- Not enough sense to come in out of the rain.

On 6 December 2012 13:02, Chris Cunnington smalltalktelevision@gmail.com wrote:

On 2012-12-06 6:47 AM, Frank Shearar wrote:

...

On 6 December 2012 11:43, Geert Claes geert.wl.claes@gmail.com wrote:

...

I just noticed the discussion about a revamped Squeak.org which is great and I like the idea of using Bootstrap! Anyhow make sure to point (especially beginners) to the World of Smalltalk (world.st) and the aggregated online mailing lists at forum.world.st

planet.squeak.org probably needs a nice place on the front page too. (And and and and....)

frank

I'll add world.st in the Smalltalk Blogs section. forum.world.st is linked from the homepage of world.st, so I don't think they are two links, but one.

planet.smalltalk.org has all the things planet.squeak.org does (I think) and there is already a link for that in the Smalltalk Blogs section. Neither world.st nor planet.*.st are core Squeak things, and so they don't go on the homepage.

My work blog posts (labelled "LShift Ltd.") are in planet.squeak but not planet.smalltalk, but I'd accept the answer "well get it added to that planet then".

There is a LOT of overlap between the two, in other words, but neither is a superset of the other.

frank

The world.st is a good suggestion, though. Thank you for it.

Chris

Chris Cunnington wrote

I'll add world.st in the Smalltalk Blogs section. forum.world.st is linked from the homepage of world.st, so I don't think they are two links, but one.

I would suggest to put world.st under the Documentation rather than Smalltalk Blogs because it doesn't publish anything.

Chris Cunnington wrote

planet.smalltalk.org has all the things planet.squeak.org does (I think) and there is already a link for that in the Smalltalk Blogs section. Neither world.st nor planet.*.st are core Squeak things, and so they don't go on the homepage.

Sure.

My 2 cents: the younger generation may not make the connection that "Mailing Lists" are where you can go and find the answer to questions one may have as they are used to discuss in online "Forums" rather than via email.

ps. there are sub-domains for the Smalltalk Distributions so you could point to squeak.forum.world.st (or gemstone.forum.world.st or cincom.forum.world.st or ...) to get straight to the Squeak specific forums.

-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/squeak-org-tp4657018p4658415.html Sent from the Squeak - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.