Folks -
This is part two of two about upcoming releases. Besides the 4.0 release we need to get ready for a release from the trunk. If you look at rather long list of improvements this is a good time to get a release out.
One of the things that's a bit odd here is that we don't know yet whether the trunk release will become 3.11 or 4.1. That's because it depends on whether we can get the relicensing done before the trunk release is ready or not. If the 4.0 release happens relatively quickly, we can go straight to 4.1. However, at the board meeting we had agreement that we didn't want to introduce an artificial dependency here, so we'll be working towards 3.11 and if 4.0 gets done in time we'll just jump straight into 4.1.
To avoid confusion, let's refer to it as "trunk release" until we have more clarity of what version it is likely to be.
The real question is what remains to be done for the next release. In theory, we could just release a trunk image pretty much "as is" but from my perspective this is aiming too low. I'd like to make this a richer release than what a trunk image contains. To do this we'll have to find consensus about: * what documentation to include * what external/optional packages to include * what the welcome screen should look like * what extra projects to include * ... and more .... and that's besides the usual release work of ensuring that we've got the tests green, packaging Squeak for the platforms and so on.
I think what we're looking for here is really a release manager and team that think a bit like a product manager. We have a Squeak image and there's plenty of interesting code out there, what we need to do is to build an interesting AND useful artifact that we like as a starting point for people to explore Squeak.
I know some people have expressed interest in the release manager role for the next release (nudge, nudge Edgar :-) so again we need volunteers both for driving the process, decide on the deadlines, and get things done as well as team members for the various bits to be done.
Please don't be shy. If you'd like to actively participate in the next release, post your thoughts.
Cheers, - Andreas
On 2/19/10 6:52 AM, "Andreas Raab" andreas.raab@gmx.de wrote:
I know some people have expressed interest in the release manager role for the next release (nudge, nudge Edgar :-) so again we need volunteers both for driving the process, decide on the deadlines, and get things done as well as team members for the various bits to be done.
I you was offering such job, the answer is yes. In such case I could become 'Board listening meber', some in contact with Board and not doing political decisions.
For members, I like David and Chris, asking here to my far away friend Jerome, who has super BUG chasing and documenting skills.
And beg to Ralph for his clear mind become Release advisor.
Juan ? Cuis is super but we need Morphic 3.0 into future main Squeak ASAP
I send this to Dan also , was lucky to eat pizza and drink beer with he and friends , doing real small talk :) .
Edgar
Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:
On 2/19/10 6:52 AM, "Andreas Raab" andreas.raab@gmx.de wrote:
I know some people have expressed interest in the release manager role for the next release (nudge, nudge Edgar :-) so again we need volunteers both for driving the process, decide on the deadlines, and get things done as well as team members for the various bits to be done.
I you was offering such job, the answer is yes.
Thanks Edgar.
In such case I could become 'Board listening meber', some in contact with Board and not doing political decisions.
For members, I like David and Chris, asking here to my far away friend Jerome, who has super BUG chasing and documenting skills.
And beg to Ralph for his clear mind become Release advisor.
Juan ? Cuis is super but we need Morphic 3.0 into future main Squeak ASAP
I send this to Dan also , was lucky to eat pizza and drink beer with he and friends , doing real small talk :) .
Well it looks like you're on top of it :-) Feel free to ask for help from the board or the community. We're all here to help in any way we can.
Cheers, - Andreas
Hi,
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 9:52 AM, Andreas Raab andreas.raab@gmx.de wrote:
I know some people have expressed interest in the release manager role for the next release (nudge, nudge Edgar :-) so again we need volunteers both for driving the process, decide on the deadlines, and get things done as well as team members for the various bits to be done.
if I may offer myself as team member ...
Best,
Michael
On 19 February 2010 11:55, Michael Haupt mhaupt@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 9:52 AM, Andreas Raab andreas.raab@gmx.de wrote:
I know some people have expressed interest in the release manager role for the next release (nudge, nudge Edgar :-) so again we need volunteers both for driving the process, decide on the deadlines, and get things done as well as team members for the various bits to be done.
if I may offer myself as team member ...
Hi Mike, what prevents you from doing that? :)
Best,
Michael
Hi Igor,
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 7:37 PM, Igor Stasenko siguctua@gmail.com wrote:
if I may offer myself as team member ...
Hi Mike, what prevents you from doing that? :)
nothing at all. :-) Should the leader approve of that, I'll try to be of help.
Best,
Michael
Whatever you call the trunk release, in my opinion it should not be called 3.11. There is too much out there already talking about 3.11 and it's history, and if you call the proposed trunk release 3.11, there will continue to be confusion generated far into the future.
eg: http://installer.pbworks.com/311 http://installer.pbworks.com/Squeak311 This is the Proposal to the board which was to my knowledge accepted. http://installer.pbworks.com/Squeak311Proposal
In my view, the better way forward would be restore the ftp directory structure to what it was: 3.11 and its previous contents still called 3.11 and not pointing to trunk, add a readme in the 3.11 directory saying 3.11 was never a proper official release and be done with it.
Ken G. Brown
At 12:52 AM -0800 2/19/10, Andreas Raab apparently wrote:
Folks -
This is part two of two about upcoming releases. Besides the 4.0 release we need to get ready for a release from the trunk. If you look at rather long list of improvements this is a good time to get a release out.
One of the things that's a bit odd here is that we don't know yet whether the trunk release will become 3.11 or 4.1. That's because it depends on whether we can get the relicensing done before the trunk release is ready or not. If the 4.0 release happens relatively quickly, we can go straight to 4.1. However, at the board meeting we had agreement that we didn't want to introduce an artificial dependency here, so we'll be working towards 3.11 and if 4.0 gets done in time we'll just jump straight into 4.1.
To avoid confusion, let's refer to it as "trunk release" until we have more clarity of what version it is likely to be.
The real question is what remains to be done for the next release. In theory, we could just release a trunk image pretty much "as is" but from my perspective this is aiming too low. I'd like to make this a richer release than what a trunk image contains. To do this we'll have to find consensus about:
- what documentation to include
- what external/optional packages to include
- what the welcome screen should look like
- what extra projects to include
- ... and more ....
and that's besides the usual release work of ensuring that we've got the tests green, packaging Squeak for the platforms and so on.
I think what we're looking for here is really a release manager and team that think a bit like a product manager. We have a Squeak image and there's plenty of interesting code out there, what we need to do is to build an interesting AND useful artifact that we like as a starting point for people to explore Squeak.
I know some people have expressed interest in the release manager role for the next release (nudge, nudge Edgar :-) so again we need volunteers both for driving the process, decide on the deadlines, and get things done as well as team members for the various bits to be done.
Please don't be shy. If you'd like to actively participate in the next release, post your thoughts.
Cheers,
- Andreas
Ken G. Brown wrote:
Whatever you call the trunk release, in my opinion it should not be called 3.11. There is too much out there already talking about 3.11 and it's history, and if you call the proposed trunk release 3.11, there will continue to be confusion generated far into the future.
I think this is good advise and there is precedent for such an approach. 3.3 was never finalized and we went from 3.2 to 3.4 so going from 3.10 to 3.12 wouldn't be such a big deal. We'll have to discuss this at the next board meeting but from what I see in the responses it looks like there's support for your proposal.
Cheers, - Andreas
eg: http://installer.pbworks.com/311 http://installer.pbworks.com/Squeak311 This is the Proposal to the board which was to my knowledge accepted. http://installer.pbworks.com/Squeak311Proposal
In my view, the better way forward would be restore the ftp directory structure to what it was: 3.11 and its previous contents still called 3.11 and not pointing to trunk, add a readme in the 3.11 directory saying 3.11 was never a proper official release and be done with it.
Ken G. Brown
At 12:52 AM -0800 2/19/10, Andreas Raab apparently wrote:
Folks -
This is part two of two about upcoming releases. Besides the 4.0 release we need to get ready for a release from the trunk. If you look at rather long list of improvements this is a good time to get a release out.
One of the things that's a bit odd here is that we don't know yet whether the trunk release will become 3.11 or 4.1. That's because it depends on whether we can get the relicensing done before the trunk release is ready or not. If the 4.0 release happens relatively quickly, we can go straight to 4.1. However, at the board meeting we had agreement that we didn't want to introduce an artificial dependency here, so we'll be working towards 3.11 and if 4.0 gets done in time we'll just jump straight into 4.1.
To avoid confusion, let's refer to it as "trunk release" until we have more clarity of what version it is likely to be.
The real question is what remains to be done for the next release. In theory, we could just release a trunk image pretty much "as is" but from my perspective this is aiming too low. I'd like to make this a richer release than what a trunk image contains. To do this we'll have to find consensus about:
- what documentation to include
- what external/optional packages to include
- what the welcome screen should look like
- what extra projects to include
- ... and more ....
and that's besides the usual release work of ensuring that we've got the tests green, packaging Squeak for the platforms and so on.
I think what we're looking for here is really a release manager and team that think a bit like a product manager. We have a Squeak image and there's plenty of interesting code out there, what we need to do is to build an interesting AND useful artifact that we like as a starting point for people to explore Squeak.
I know some people have expressed interest in the release manager role for the next release (nudge, nudge Edgar :-) so again we need volunteers both for driving the process, decide on the deadlines, and get things done as well as team members for the various bits to be done.
Please don't be shy. If you'd like to actively participate in the next release, post your thoughts.
Cheers,
- Andreas
This is part two of two about upcoming releases. Besides the 4.0 release we need to get ready for a release from the trunk. If you look at rather long list of improvements this is a good time to get a release out.
Yes, but there are still some basic things we should try to fix shouldn't we? For example, it's hard to imagine putting out something called anything other than "alpha" with the TextEditor home / end keys are not working properly. Things like this are too low-level to allow into a final release because people have a connection to software through their mouse, keyboard, and have expectations for certain keys to behave in the normal ways.
If it were the backspace key, I'm sure we wouldn't release. To me the home and end keys are right up there..
At 4:58 PM -0600 2/20/10, Chris Muller apparently wrote:
This is part two of two about upcoming releases. Besides the 4.0 release we need to get ready for a release from the trunk. If you look at rather long list of improvements this is a good time to get a release out.
Yes, but there are still some basic things we should try to fix shouldn't we? For example, it's hard to imagine putting out something called anything other than "alpha" with the TextEditor home / end keys are not working properly. Things like this are too low-level to allow into a final release because people have a connection to software through their mouse, keyboard, and have expectations for certain keys to behave in the normal ways.
If it were the backspace key, I'm sure we wouldn't release. To me the home and end keys are right up there..
And the text selection works incorrectly last time I looked.
http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=7439
Ken G. Brown
On 20.02.2010, at 23:58, Chris Muller wrote:
This is part two of two about upcoming releases. Besides the 4.0 release we need to get ready for a release from the trunk. If you look at rather long list of improvements this is a good time to get a release out.
Yes, but there are still some basic things we should try to fix shouldn't we? For example, it's hard to imagine putting out something called anything other than "alpha" with the TextEditor home / end keys are not working properly. Things like this are too low-level to allow into a final release because people have a connection to software through their mouse, keyboard, and have expectations for certain keys to behave in the normal ways.
If it were the backspace key, I'm sure we wouldn't release. To me the home and end keys are right up there..
One of the jobs of the release manager would be to determine which of the bugs are blockers for the release. They could be tagged on Mantis, maybe create a report showing all of them, and then we can work steadily towards fixing those issues.
- Bert -
On 2/21/10 9:21 AM, "Bert Freudenberg" bert@freudenbergs.de wrote:
One of the jobs of the release manager would be to determine which of the bugs are blockers for the release. They could be tagged on Mantis, maybe create a report showing all of them, and then we can work steadily towards fixing those issues.
- Bert -
The release manager send friendly responses to two super Squeakers saying they wish help.
Also to two who do not say , but I need they could help.
Silence...
And the release manager beg Board say
"Well the 9371 is the last 3.11 until further notice, you could consider it the end of this phase, no more new things, no more changes until you happy all works and user do not go away after the n + 1 crash "
I send a proposal about Mendieta.
Having some coming from my wild experiments working, say some yesterday in IRC.
Feedback, please feedback.
On Skype and on IRC as edgardec until 12:30 Argentina (two more hours)
Edgar
Hi Edgar!
2010/2/21 Edgar J. De Cleene edgardec2001@yahoo.com.ar
On 2/21/10 9:21 AM, "Bert Freudenberg" bert@freudenbergs.de wrote:
One of the jobs of the release manager would be to determine which of the
bugs
are blockers for the release. They could be tagged on Mantis, maybe
create a
report showing all of them, and then we can work steadily towards fixing
those
issues.
- Bert -
The release manager send friendly responses to two super Squeakers saying they wish help.
Also to two who do not say , but I need they could help.
Silence...
And the release manager beg Board say
"Well the 9371 is the last 3.11 until further notice, you could consider it the end of this phase, no more new things, no more changes until you happy all works and user do not go away after the n + 1 crash "
I send a proposal about Mendieta.
Having some coming from my wild experiments working, say some yesterday in IRC.
Feedback, please feedback.
On Skype and on IRC as edgardec until 12:30 Argentina (two more hours)
Edgar
I also think that the current 3.11 (or the new name it will have) should be freezed at some point, without new additions.
But, and sorry if I'm so repetitive, can't understand how Shout is being used on it.
The class browser show the highlighted syntax, but if you check on Universes (in Category "Code Browsing") the main Shout package is not installed.
I would understand how is implemented Shout in 3.11, because if you install the Shout Workspace not works and neither the Shout-Monticello.
Cheers. Germán.
Chris Muller wrote:
This is part two of two about upcoming releases. Besides the 4.0 release we need to get ready for a release from the trunk. If you look at rather long list of improvements this is a good time to get a release out.
Yes, but there are still some basic things we should try to fix shouldn't we?
Absolutely. As usual, the point of getting into "release mode" is that you stop just adding more stuff which potentially destabilize things and rather try to polish the release by fixing all the little nit-picks that have gone unfixed thus far.
BTW, the best way to ensure the things you care about do get fixed is to file a bug with a test. The bug ensures the issue doesn't get forgotten for the release, the test ensures no regressions.
Cheers, - Andreas
For example, it's hard to imagine putting out something called anything other than "alpha" with the TextEditor home / end keys are not working properly. Things like this are too low-level to allow into a final release because people have a connection to software through their mouse, keyboard, and have expectations for certain keys to behave in the normal ways.
If it were the backspace key, I'm sure we wouldn't release. To me the home and end keys are right up there..
Hooray for tests!
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 3:30 AM, Andreas Raab andreas.raab@gmx.de wrote:
Chris Muller wrote:
This is part two of two about upcoming releases. Besides the 4.0 release we need to get ready for a release from the trunk. If you look at rather long list of improvements this is a good time to get a release out.
Yes, but there are still some basic things we should try to fix shouldn't we?
Absolutely. As usual, the point of getting into "release mode" is that you stop just adding more stuff which potentially destabilize things and rather try to polish the release by fixing all the little nit-picks that have gone unfixed thus far.
BTW, the best way to ensure the things you care about do get fixed is to file a bug with a test. The bug ensures the issue doesn't get forgotten for the release, the test ensures no regressions.
Cheers, - Andreas
For example, it's hard to imagine putting out something called anything other than "alpha" with the TextEditor home / end keys are not working properly. Things like this are too low-level to allow into a final release because people have a connection to software through their mouse, keyboard, and have expectations for certain keys to behave in the normal ways.
If it were the backspace key, I'm sure we wouldn't release. To me the home and end keys are right up there..
On Wed, 2010-03-03 at 21:26 -0800, Ronald Spengler wrote:
Hooray for tests!
I ran some tests on the Squeak3.11-9371-alpha.image and posted the results to
http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6148
Others have listed what failed. How do I generate that listing?
On 3/4/10 5:09 AM, "Gary Dunn" osp@aloha.com wrote:
I ran some tests on the Squeak3.11-9371-alpha.image and posted the results to
http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6148
Others have listed what failed. How do I generate that listing?
Until now by using halos, you click on the panel until you select some like a PluggableListMorphPlus<Failure List>(306) .
Inspect with the wrench item , look for #list or do self list inspect in the lower pane of inspector.
I think a good exercise is figure how you could have this exported as a file in your working dir.
Hints: the model of the window is TestRunner, look and you quick find failedList ....
Keep the good work , its a valuable info discover the 64bit experimental Vm gives 10 failures and the regular one 15.
Edgar
On 04.03.2010, at 09:10, Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:
On 3/4/10 5:09 AM, "Gary Dunn" osp@aloha.com wrote:
I ran some tests on the Squeak3.11-9371-alpha.image and posted the results to
http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6148
Others have listed what failed. How do I generate that listing?
Until now by using halos, you click on the panel until you select some like a PluggableListMorphPlus<Failure List>(306) .
Inspect with the wrench item , look for #list or do self list inspect in the lower pane of inspector.
Or simply choose "copy & print... - copy text" from the halo's red menu button.
- Bert -
squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
-
Andreas Raab -
Bert Freudenberg -
Chris Muller -
Edgar J. De Cleene -
Gary Dunn -
Germán Arduino -
Igor Stasenko -
Ken G. Brown -
Michael Haupt -
Ronald Spengler