So. Some kind people (GSoC) are willing to throw money at us if only we have something for people to do.
We really, really ought to propose projects. We did nothing last year, and so got nothing.
For starters, there's work to be done in finishing porting Cog to ARM. What else might we usefully propose?
For instance, I'd like to see a project bringing Reactive Extensions [1] to Squeak. Or a Cap'n Proto [2] implementation, whether through FFI or native. Or maybe there's useful work to be done in the UI department.
Suggestions, folks!
frank
[1] https://rx.codeplex.com/ [2] http://kentonv.github.io/capnproto/
What motivates me to learn vm-dev (besides the fact that it is interesting) is the desire to bring Squeak to a state where it will be embraced by the Linux crowd.
Some of the projects I have in mind are:
1. Squeak as X server/client...where launching StartX on linux invokes squeak and the window manager is squeak. 2. In addition to Morphic, I would like to port Chrome (as a plugin, I guess--I don't know enough) so that Seaside could be a desktop. I would love to see a desktop with "renderFooOn: aSeasideWorld 3. In the same idea as 2, use OpenGL 4. I have a broken project of HLA up on SqueakSource (?) that I would like to finish. 5. Emacs interface to the Squeak dev tools (heresy, I know).
I do not think that I have the coding chops to do the above yet. that is why I am working on the port of the StackInterpreter to naitve 64 and then 64x64 followed by Cog to native 64. I figure at that point I will be fluent enough to attempt the above.
cordially,
tty.
---- On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 02:13:58 -0800 Frank Shearar<frank.shearar@gmail.com> wrote ----
So. Some kind people (GSoC) are willing to throw money at us if only we have something for people to do.
We really, really ought to propose projects. We did nothing last year, and so got nothing.
For starters, there's work to be done in finishing porting Cog to ARM. What else might we usefully propose?
For instance, I'd like to see a project bringing Reactive Extensions [1] to Squeak. Or a Cap'n Proto [2] implementation, whether through FFI or native. Or maybe there's useful work to be done in the UI department.
Suggestions, folks!
frank
[1] https://rx.codeplex.com/ [2] http://kentonv.github.io/capnproto/
Hi, I won't use any templates. Here are some of my ideas (maybe some of them are already there, but I don't know about them):
1. Make NativeBoost working in Squeak and make it as easy to use a ctypes in Python. 2. Implement Gtk or Qt bindings for Squeak. 3. Make using Squeak for command line scripting easy. 4. Implement SOAP WebServices framework (a possible start could be SOAPopera). 5. Help to integrate Spoon/Cuis into Squeak. 6. Improve morph layout classes in morphic to make them rock stable and add new features. 7. Add revision tree to Monticello. 8. Implement Amber Smalltalk inside an image (Seaside or not), so one can write everything in one place (the idea is to use the Smalltalk to JavaScript translation engine from Amber to generate scripts sent to a browser when a user views a page).
Best wishes, Mateusz Grotek
On 07-02-2014, at 2:13 AM, Frank Shearar frank.shearar@gmail.com wrote:
So. Some kind people (GSoC) are willing to throw money at us if only we have something for people to do.
We really, really ought to propose projects. We did nothing last year, and so got nothing.
A good point.
For starters, there's work to be done in finishing porting Cog to ARM.
Um, that one’s mine. I’m already being paid for that.
What else might we usefully propose?
As you mentioned, UI builder. Chris has Maui and it is extremely interesting. HPInstitute has Morphic Designer, which is interesting but I found a bit hard to do anything with; and it uses some eventy infrastructure that made me grimace a bit. Both or either would be an interesting thing to take as a start, or inspiration, or even counter-example if you’re that way inclined.
Extended uses of Plumbin’ - there used to be a pretty neat digital circuit simulator based on the tiles-on-a-grid approach of Plumbin. Bet there are quite a lot of simulations of a similar kind. It could be a neat way to assemble and simulate rules for control systems; for example the programming of a radio control transmitter to make the assorted servos do The Right Thing when you waggle a control stick, button, dial, or lever. This has the advantage of being a Useful Thing for teaching, rather than just a Cool Language Toy. Another approach might be the Scratch style of dragging tiles to build scripts; which come to think of it is sort of a free-form variety of spreadsheet rules instead of a grid-style per Plumbin’.
Some things I’d like to se that may already exist or simply need bringing up to date-
A terminal window to talk to your OS command line; there is a way to make the Pi boot into Scratch but once you do that you have a hard time doing anything else. A terminal window would mean being able to do things like `apt-get upgrade scratch` more easily.
A decent email facility. I have this vague recollection that Celeste still exists and some one even uses it? Again, in a boot-to-Scratch Pi it could be interesting to provide an email system. And maybe use Scratch scripting to add rules to it for sorting and filing and stuff? And given the utter balls-up that Apple have made of their email app in Mavericks recently, maybe now is the time do a good version that non-Squeakers would use!
Use of host windows. They’ve been there for almost a decade and … <crickets>. Forget grand schemes to do All Host Widgets All The Time; just make decent use of multiple host window areas to display multiple Squeak things.
There; that’s a couple of university departments of students kept off the streets for the summer.
tim -- tim Rowledge; tim@rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Strange OpCodes: RDRI: Rotate Disk Right Immediate
On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 1:54 PM, tim Rowledge tim@rowledge.org wrote:
Use of host windows. They've been there for almost a decade and ... <crickets>. Forget grand schemes to do All Host Widgets All The Time; just make decent use of multiple host window areas to display multiple Squeak things.
This!
If we had a HostSystemWindow that could be created with ToolBuilder and contained the existing Morphic widgets, that would be awesome.
Tim Rowledge pondered:
A decent email facility. I have this vague recollection that Celeste still exists and some one even uses it?
This was typed in Celeste, which has been my only email client since late 2004. I have a bunch of fixed which I haven't shared since they are some of the worst code ever written because crashes always happen when I am in a hurry to reply to an email. There are lots of low hanging fruit to make less unreasonable, but a new client might be a better option.
Again, in a boot-to-Scratch Pi it could be interesting to provide an email system. And maybe use Scratch scripting to add rules to it for sorting and filing and stuff? And given the utter balls-up that Apple have made of their email app in Mavericks recently, maybe now is the time do a good version that non-Squeakers would use!
Most people I know currently use web based mail services. I have experience with two (Zimbra and SmartMail) and prefer Celeste.
-- Jecel
HPInstitute has Morphic Designer, which is interesting but I found a bit hard to do anything with.
I have used it, and it works well. There are only small glitches when you try to make scrollbars vertical. But it's worth to extend. And it has its own set of widgets. The current version has solved the problem of reinitializing the class. Now it just generates some code inside a method in a class, so you can modify it easily afterwards.
On 7 February 2014 18:54, tim Rowledge tim@rowledge.org wrote:
On 07-02-2014, at 2:13 AM, Frank Shearar frank.shearar@gmail.com wrote:
So. Some kind people (GSoC) are willing to throw money at us if only we have something for people to do.
We really, really ought to propose projects. We did nothing last year, and so got nothing.
A good point.
For starters, there's work to be done in finishing porting Cog to ARM.
Um, that one’s mine. I’m already being paid for that.
What else might we usefully propose?
As you mentioned, UI builder. Chris has Maui and it is extremely interesting. HPInstitute has Morphic Designer, which is interesting but I found a bit hard to do anything with; and it uses some eventy infrastructure that made me grimace a bit. Both or either would be an interesting thing to take as a start, or inspiration, or even counter-example if you’re that way inclined.
Extended uses of Plumbin’ - there used to be a pretty neat digital circuit simulator based on the tiles-on-a-grid approach of Plumbin. Bet there are quite a lot of simulations of a similar kind. It could be a neat way to assemble and simulate rules for control systems; for example the programming of a radio control transmitter to make the assorted servos do The Right Thing when you waggle a control stick, button, dial, or lever. This has the advantage of being a Useful Thing for teaching, rather than just a Cool Language Toy. Another approach might be the Scratch style of dragging tiles to build scripts; which come to think of it is sort of a free-form variety of spreadsheet rules instead of a grid-style per Plumbin’.
I had planned to deliberately not comment on any proposals, but I can't help myself: I think it is an _excellent_ idea to get some Useful Thing projects. My personal bias is towards Cool Language Toys, but those are useless without a Useful Thing project to actually put the fancy tech to good use. I would love to see a circuit simulator!
frank
Some things I’d like to se that may already exist or simply need bringing up to date-
A terminal window to talk to your OS command line; there is a way to make the Pi boot into Scratch but once you do that you have a hard time doing anything else. A terminal window would mean being able to do things like `apt-get upgrade scratch` more easily.
A decent email facility. I have this vague recollection that Celeste still exists and some one even uses it? Again, in a boot-to-Scratch Pi it could be interesting to provide an email system. And maybe use Scratch scripting to add rules to it for sorting and filing and stuff? And given the utter balls-up that Apple have made of their email app in Mavericks recently, maybe now is the time do a good version that non-Squeakers would use!
Use of host windows. They’ve been there for almost a decade and … <crickets>. Forget grand schemes to do All Host Widgets All The Time; just make decent use of multiple host window areas to display multiple Squeak things.
There; that’s a couple of university departments of students kept off the streets for the summer.
tim
tim Rowledge; tim@rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Strange OpCodes: RDRI: Rotate Disk Right Immediate
On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 2:53 PM, Frank Shearar frank.shearar@gmail.comwrote:
On 7 February 2014 18:54, tim Rowledge tim@rowledge.org wrote:
On 07-02-2014, at 2:13 AM, Frank Shearar frank.shearar@gmail.com
wrote:
So. Some kind people (GSoC) are willing to throw money at us if only we have something for people to do.
We really, really ought to propose projects. We did nothing last year, and so got nothing.
A good point.
For starters, there's work to be done in finishing porting Cog to ARM.
Um, that one's mine. I'm already being paid for that.
What else might we usefully propose?
As you mentioned, UI builder. Chris has Maui and it is extremely
interesting. HPInstitute has Morphic Designer, which is interesting but I found a bit hard to do anything with; and it uses some eventy infrastructure that made me grimace a bit. Both or either would be an interesting thing to take as a start, or inspiration, or even counter-example if you're that way inclined.
Extended uses of Plumbin' - there used to be a pretty neat digital
circuit simulator based on the tiles-on-a-grid approach of Plumbin. Bet there are quite a lot of simulations of a similar kind. It could be a neat way to assemble and simulate rules for control systems; for example the programming of a radio control transmitter to make the assorted servos do The Right Thing when you waggle a control stick, button, dial, or lever. This has the advantage of being a Useful Thing for teaching, rather than just a Cool Language Toy. Another approach might be the Scratch style of dragging tiles to build scripts; which come to think of it is sort of a free-form variety of spreadsheet rules instead of a grid-style per Plumbin'.
I had planned to deliberately not comment on any proposals, but I can't help myself: I think it is an _excellent_ idea to get some Useful Thing projects. My personal bias is towards Cool Language Toys, but those are useless without a Useful Thing project to actually put the fancy tech to good use. I would love to see a circuit simulator!
I built a circuit/logic simulator using Connectors in the Etoys image and it worked quite nicely. I made a special morph for scaling down parts to make it more space efficient. So I could fx. build a half adder and use it as a prototype. It was fun but had some issues. I'll see if I can dig up the code.
Cheers, Karl
frank
Some things I'd like to se that may already exist or simply need
bringing up to date-
A terminal window to talk to your OS command line; there is a way to
make the Pi boot into Scratch but once you do that you have a hard time doing anything else. A terminal window would mean being able to do things like `apt-get upgrade scratch` more easily.
A decent email facility. I have this vague recollection that Celeste
still exists and some one even uses it? Again, in a boot-to-Scratch Pi it could be interesting to provide an email system. And maybe use Scratch scripting to add rules to it for sorting and filing and stuff? And given the utter balls-up that Apple have made of their email app in Mavericks recently, maybe now is the time do a good version that non-Squeakers would use!
Use of host windows. They've been there for almost a decade and ...
<crickets>. Forget grand schemes to do All Host Widgets All The Time; just make decent use of multiple host window areas to display multiple Squeak things.
There; that's a couple of university departments of students kept off
the streets for the summer.
tim
tim Rowledge; tim@rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Strange OpCodes: RDRI: Rotate Disk Right Immediate
On Fri, Feb 07, 2014 at 10:54:15AM -0800, tim Rowledge wrote:
On 07-02-2014, at 2:13 AM, Frank Shearar frank.shearar@gmail.com wrote:
What else might we usefully propose?
A terminal window to talk to your OS command line; there is a way to make the Pi boot into Scratch but once you do that you have a hard time doing anything else. A terminal window would mean being able to do things like `apt-get upgrade scratch` more easily.
Hi Tim,
If you are thinking of Linux on Pi, then try loading CommandShell and OSProcess from SqueakMap (or from their repos on squeaksource.com).
Then from the toolbar, open Apps -> Squeak Shell.
On a unix/linux system, you can set up an account to log directly into Squeak as a replacement for the normal interactive shell, then within the image you can open a Squeak Shell. There are some limitations, for example do not try to use vi or emacs (though you can use the built in command "edit" to edit files in Squeak). But the result is a computer that boots directly into Squeak, and gives you a limited simulation of a unix shell from within the image.
Unfortunately, you will not be able to do "sudo apt-get upgrade scratch" because sudo is smart enough to figure out that somebody is doing something outside of a real terminal session(*), but maybe we can figure a way around that.
If you are thinking Risc OS, then it is a much more interesting problem. There are stub classes RoscOSProcess, RiscOSProcessAccessor, and ExternalRiscOSProcess, so in theory if we could make those do useful things, then CommandShell would begin working too (though I expect that there would be some file system syntax issues to work out). Now *that* would be a real GSoC challenge.
(*) If you try doing something like "$ sudo su -" in your Squeak shell window, you will find your image locked up, waiting on a blocking read. Go to the linux terminal window from which you started Squeak, and type the command "fg" (meaning bring a background process, the Squeak VM, back to the foreground and attach it to your shell. You will then see the prompt from the sudo command, which will look like this:
[sudo] password for lewis:
Then enter your password, press enter, and Squeak will resume. Of course, this won't help if you logged directly into Squeak with no unix shell, so catch-22.
Dave
On 08-02-2014, at 12:36 PM, David T. Lewis lewis@mail.msen.com wrote:
If you are thinking of Linux on Pi, then try loading CommandShell and OSProcess from SqueakMap (or from their repos on squeaksource.com).
Ah, of course.
Unfortunately, you will not be able to do "sudo apt-get upgrade scratch" because sudo is smart enough to figure out that somebody is doing something outside of a real terminal session(*), but maybe we can figure a way around that.
Hope so, because that would really be the main pint of using it!
tim -- tim Rowledge; tim@rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Strange OpCodes: SDJ: Send all Data to Japan
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