[Seaside] rails niceties equivalents?
eagleoffshore at mac.com
Fri May 15 19:50:44 UTC 2009
First, the point of my rather cranky reply was to point out how the
other remark was not only not helpful, but off-putting. This is how
seaside community gets labelled "unfriendly" and "arrogant". There's
a lot of nice ideas in rails. Many are worth stealing.
Seaside is a deep magical framework (the session state management
magic and continuations) make it really hard to contribute anything at
the core level unless they've studied and studied it. We can't all
devote that much time to mastering all that magic.
OK, here's a couple of things I wish were solved and have take a bit
of time to look at and keep hitting the wall on. At some point fairly
soon, I promise I'll take at least one of them on and try to do
something about it if I get a little help pointing me in the right
I do periodically download the seaside image, and have also tried to
get started with glass a time or two. In the end I keep running into
time constraints and bugs that I can't seem to get around, tools are
in a state of flux, etc.... and I conclude its just not stable enough
yet. But I keep checking back.
The one thing that is consistently requested (and I definitely need)
is ways to do RESTful dispatching. The usual reply is that it is done
in Pier and I could download Pier and look at that. I've done this
and browsed code for a few hours, and still come up empty about how to
do this in generic Seaside. I think the core maintainers have to do
this - only they have the knowledge.
In general, tracking down how URLs get built and routed in Seaside is
HARD (at least it was in the previous versions - I haven't looked at
the latest one). Rails has a really GREAT convention of making urls a
standard REST format of scheme://server/controller/action/id and a
"routes" file for customizing this. This is a great idea. I love
it. I now miss it everywhere else I work. It has to be easier to
customize URL generation in seaside in a centralized way. Maybe I'm
too stupid for this, but every time I set out to do this, I get lost,
deadlines loom, and I fall back on what I know will work (rails or
Problem 2 - and this is huge. No horizontal scalability pattern has
emerged. Rails has Mongrel and some really slick sharing via
memcached (which actually, if I were to do something for seaside -
adding a memcached client would be a giant win). With all application
state stored in memcache storage, I can update and bounce the rails
apps at any time without hosing a single session. GLASS looks like it
may well solve this problem - except my hosting providers don't
provide 64 bit machines and I get lost every time I try to get started
with GLASS because I hit some half baked tool problem and give up.
OK, actually, since I agree that code talks - tell me if anyone is
doing a memcache client, and if not, I'll try to do one and see about
applying it to shared session storage - because state in the image
sucks for production and reliability. I want any image in a pool to
be able to fail at any time and not have a single user notice. Until
it does this, I can't consider it for real work.
On May 15, 2009, at 12:16 PM, stephane ducasse wrote:
> Hi Todd and others
> So why don't you offer code. Start small and step by step help.
> Why this discussion comes from time to time?
> You cannot ask lukas and julian to speed up, make seaside uses less
> Something I have the impression that the seaside community is mainly
> complaining but not really offering support and new code.
> Sorry to be harsh but this is not like that we will improve.
>> Yes, I know. That's why my last three projects have been done in
>> Sometimes I wish seaside would copy more and "innovate" less.
>> -Todd Blanchard
>> On May 14, 2009, at 7:06 AM, Philippe Marschall wrote:
>>> Seaside is not Rails in Smalltalk.
>>> seaside mailing list
>>> seaside at lists.squeakfoundation.org
>> seaside mailing list
>> seaside at lists.squeakfoundation.org
> seaside mailing list
> seaside at lists.squeakfoundation.org
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