[vwnc] [Seaside] Re: Comparison of Aida/Web, Seaside and Iliadweb frameworks

Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs boris at deepcovelabs.com
Tue Jun 28 13:09:21 UTC 2011





From: seaside-bounces at lists.squeakfoundation.org
[mailto:seaside-bounces at lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of Runar
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 7:37 AM
Cc: Seaside - general discussion; VWNC; iliad at googlegroups.com; Aida/Web
general discussion list
Subject: Re: [vwnc] [Seaside] Re: Comparison of Aida/Web, Seaside and
Iliadweb frameworks


Come on... We all know Janko is biased, and the comparison reflects
that. But it is not like he wants to take over the world and kill
Seaside. Well... maybe he wants, but there is still no reason to get
upset. :-)


I have only tried Seaside, choosing that framework since it is the
"default" one to use for Smalltalk web development. At least the
comparison made me aware of Iliad, and had me rediscover Aida. But even
if I now have more knowledge, I am more confused than ever.


We need some small reports, from various sources, comparing the
strengths and weaknesses of the frameworks. Creating a collaborative
to-do-list application might be a good reference case. 


>From what I understand, all three frameworks generate HTML using roughly
the same techniques. But there are differences in how you compose a page
from multiple components. The spreadsheet mentions "composition" vs.
"rendering". Getting a short discussion about these concepts is probably
more helpful than a lot of (smaller) features compared.


It seems like everyone agrees on the importance of JavaScript. So
explaining how the various frameworks handle this and how they will
tackle it in the future, is important. It seems like Aida and Seaside
takes different routes here. How does that matter for me as a user?
Again, a more detailed discussion than "yes" / "no" on a feature list,
would be welcome.


It is also interesting to see how this thread discusses the future of
Smalltalk web frameworks. As I understand this, we have Aida, Iliad and
Seaside being the "server-centric" web frameworks. These frameworks
generate the UI on the server, and use third-party JavaScript libraries
to provide a richer UI experience at the client. Then we have
Quicksilver and Jtalk which basically let you run your UI (Smalltalk)
code in the client browser itself. These "client-centric" frameworks are
experimental and not ready for production. As Janko mentions,
integration between these two types of frameworks will be important.


Kind regards

Runar Jordahl


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