Licences Question : Squeak-L Art 6.

Alan Kay Alan.Kay at
Thu Feb 20 15:40:05 UTC 2003

The main thanks at Apple should go to Don Norman, the head of the 
Advanced Technology Group at the time. I just saw him a few days ago, 
and again thanked him for being a "good and reasonable" guy.



At 9:19 AM -0600 2/20/03, Jimmie Houchin wrote:
>goran.hultgren at wrote:
>>Alan Kay <Alan.Kay at> wrote:
>>>OTOH, there's a reasonably true adage about letting sleeping dogs lie ....
>>Well, I am not sure we risk that much. We already have Squeak under the
>>Squeak-L and AFAIK it is pretty hard (if even possible, people are
>>arguing this) to revoke an "open source" license.
>>So, sure - they can ignore us but they can't really take anything from
>>us, right?
>>I think it is high time to do something about the license and that we
>>should take the opportunity now when we have both Alan and Andrew
>>"geared up".
>>AFAIK we have loosely these problems with Squeak-L as it stands:
>>- The font clause (if we simply get rid of the fonts Apple could just
>>skip that part)
>>- Getting rid of the export restriction clause (I believe someone said
>>that this isn't in Apples other "free" licenses so that shouldn't be a
>>- Revising the "indemnification" stuff, this was what stopped Debian
>>inclusion IIRC.
>>- Making sure how we want it: Should improvements be published
>>regardless of distribution? AFAICT Andrew got to this conclusion given
>>the current language. (Which btw probably means some of us are breaking
>>the license currently - do you have improvements that you haven't
>>Then it would be nice with some irrevokability clause perhaps and I
>>would also like to know how this new license should be applied to my
>>software - contributions that is.
>>And once and for all we could nail down the (in)compatibility of this
>>new license with at least GPL, LGPL and MIT/BSD so that we can avoid
>>some of the confusion.
>>regards, Göran
>I also think it would be nice in addition to covering all the proper 
>legal bases to honor Apple for their contribution of Squeak to the 
>Open Source community and simply Thank them.
>We have been blessed. A simple word of thanks would be nice.
>I know we have Alan and many of the original team still with us on 
>this list. Thank you for all of your contributions to this exciting 
>The thanks in the License would be for the 'Corporate' heads who 
>'Think Differently' :) and set this wonder free.
>Jimmie Houchin


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