Hi Chris, stop messing with the windows please (was Re: [squeak-dev] The Trunk: Morphic-cmm.344.mcz)

Eric Gillespie brickviking at gmail.com
Tue Feb 16 04:22:47 UTC 2010

Long post, bear with me on this one.

On 16 February 2010 05:10, Chris Muller <asqueaker at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi radoslav, I thought everyone would cheering with gratitude for this
> change!  I'm pretty surprised and sorry you don't like it.

If this change does what I think it does, then as a completely novice
coder, I'd loathe it too. There's a reason. At my current level of
experience, I don't LIKE to do context switches within one window. For
me, context switches are:
* When I have to choose another function's code to look at, removing
the original source code from view
* Changing tasks (obvious in this case)

I avoid context switches in the first case by opening another window
when I want to compare functions from two separate categories. Will
this change help me to compare code side-by-side? If not, what will
help me?

> The purpose of the change is to offload work from the user/developer
> to the computer by reducing unnecessary window proliferation.  I've
> been enjoying the enhanced productivity since 2002.

And no doubt you're probably a professional coder who holds a
miniature (say, seven-deep) stack of stuff you're following, in your
head. I can't do that, so I resort to using multiple windows instead.
This change sounds like it'd remove all that. For firefox, they had
the sense to at least make tabs. I love tabbed browsing, because even
though there's only one main window, I can switch between sub-windows
without really thinking about it. But this change doesn't sound like
the "tabbed window" kind of thing that firefox et al gives us.

>> While the changes to opening MC are dubious (in my book) but relatively
>> harmless, applying the same process to hierarchy browsers stinks.
> Wow, dubious?  Why?
>> As I use hierarchy browsers quite a lot,
> Bravo, I thought I was the only one!  Seems everyone else likes the
> "Package" browser; as you said, "one window to rule them all".

While I use the Package browser most of all, sometimes I just need to
know what the heck the parent to a particular function is. There, only
a hierarchy browser will do. And sometimes if I'm following two or
three threads of code, then I expect I'd probably use two or three
hierarchy browsers, just to keep all the code sane. Hey, I've got two
screens, I can span all windows over both screens.

Just as a note, I switch between two computers here, using a KVM. Only
one of the computers has two screens, the other computer only has one
screen plugged in (the one I'm switching over each time). On that
system, I'd still prefer to have multiple windows, even though I
haven't got the screen estate to keep it straight.

>> I absolutely DO NOT appreciate
>> having one that gets reused, losing my previous selection - example:
>> from the class browser open HB on Array
>> in the HB, select another class, say ArrayedCollection
>> in the original class browser, hit the hierarchy button again
>> and watch the HB being reused and switched to look at Array
> Ok, well, you've described the behavior again, but you haven't told me
> WHY you don't like it.  So let me start by describing why I like it.
> Basically, any time I find myself fumbling around on the desktop to
> "look for a window", I am:
>  1) wasting time
>  2) wasting energy
>  3) getting distracted by contents of the other windows I'm trying to
> move "out of the way"
>  4) forgetting my train of thought
> The point of this enhancement, in combination with the other recent
> alternativeBrowseIt improvements is to provide a *straight-line
> navigation* from code-to-code.  IOW, the computer takes you from where
> you are, to where you want to go, without you having to fish around
> for windows.  For me, it has resulted in a much more stream-lined and
> productive browsing experience.

And is of no use when you want to compare two hierarchies side by
side. If your piece of code is in action, then to get a second
hierarchy browser, I'd have to have TWO package browsers open, and
select a hierarchy browser from each of them. That makes for a total
of ... gee, four windows already. I realise that at this stage, I
could run from the HBs and dispense with the Package browsers...but
there's something about a Package browser that HB doesn't give me... a
list of everything on the system, unless I'm just not using the HB

> A nice side-effect is that I also don't waste time closing the 5700
> windows that accumulate due to the systems' dumb opening of new,
> redundant, windows all the time.

Somewhat true, but again, I'm used to it.

Anyhow, that's my take on it, as a totally amateur coder. Please don't
make my job any harder than it already is. Not unless you're able to
build me a miniature stack inside my head.

Regards, The Viking
(Dr Smokey)

More information about the Squeak-dev mailing list