[V3dot10] Re: Tentative of start 3.11

[Matthew Fulmer]

On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 08:33:22AM -0300, Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> El 1/29/08 7:33 PM, "Matthew Fulmer" <tapplek at gmail.com> escribi?:
> 
> > First of all, I am glad you are declaring 3.10 stable.
> it's Ralph who should declare 3.10 stable, not me.
> But the fact is 3.10 is same for about one and half month, I don't see
> people complaining and the several mails to Ralph have no effect.
> 
> > However, I think it is a bad idea to start a new release without
> > too much discussion. How about we arrange a meeting on #squeak
> > at some time when we are all likely available, like Saturday, 2
> > Feb at 1600 UTC or so, to discuss what we want 3.11 to be?
> 
> I throw this stone for wake up people who care about Squeak, like you.
> Don't forget we have Smalltalks 2007 in Buenos Aires and several fine
> Smaltalkers/Squeakers have long discussions in cafes.
> I agree with open long discussion, I could hold it between 8 and 12
> Argentina time , but don't sure about Saturday (I on move to new place
> issues).
> I confirm tomorrow about this.
> 
> > I agree that MinimalMorphic is a good agenda item for 3.11, but
> > as Keith and I have been  and many folk down at #squeak have
> > been discussing for a few months, I don,t think the release
> > team should continue focusing on a single release, since that is
> > NOT what squeak is. I summarized my position  in a previous
> > mail, but I never got a response from you:
> 
> Very sorry if I miss important mail.
> Remember me which one is .

Sorry:
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2008-January/124332.html

> About focusing on a single release, well, 3.10 was a Hercules job, so being
> mere mortals how we could do several at the same time?

Well, I think most of the pain with 3.10 was a self-inflicted
combination of a really messy update process (MC in the update
stream), and Ralph not treating volunteers nicely, leaving you
to do it by yourself. I haven't talked to you much, so I may be
wrong. What was so hard about it?

> MinimalMorphic is the remarkable fruit of Pavel works, I have only very
> minors disagree with he and we exchange ideas from time to time.
> I said in others mails I see Morphic 3.0 as future of Squeak.
> Long conversations with Juan convince me is better at this time he manage
> his baby as fork.
> And I wish some of Sophie toys inside Squeak, that is supposing Sophie is
> free software created on top of Squeak .
> They let some migrate to Squeak ?

Yes. LPF and DS are designed to work on all squeak forks, and
build bridges between them to enable more trade of ideas and
code. I have tested DS on 3.8, 3.9, 3.10, Croquet, and etoys,
and it works on those.

> 3.8.2 is the last and was maintained by Michael Rueger.
> For me . could have more sense I take 3.8.2 and do my shrinks.
> In effect , I have several experiments with this idea.
> Meaning I created some images and have working.
> I never discuss in public, as think nobody buys it

Keith described how he does this with LPF in another email

> So I glad all know now same I know before 3.10 starts.
> And sad alternatives to change sets don't ready yet.
> I also have long talk with Colin and he promises finish MC2 and say MC2 is
> better suited.

I will try to invite Colin. I haven't heard anything about MC2 in
a long time, and don't remember what it's about

> You said DeltaStreams don't works with Traits or I missunderstand some.
> It's DeltaSteams ready ?

No, DeltaStreams is not ready for use yet, although I think I
will have the UI be only a little less functional than
changesets in a month or so. There is no traits support at
present, although I don't anticipate serious difficulties adding
it, it will require a bit of work on the SystemEditor side.
After that, we can probably start preliminarily using them like
changesets. I haven't even started implementing streams, either
local or remote, that will enable us to supplant the update
stream and .changes file. Currently, the biggest issue is that
the UI is abysmally slow, taking up to
2.5 minutes to respond to a mouse click. More details in my
  latest status report:
  http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2008-January/124331.html

> I do my best sending mails, can't force others to communicate.
> Also I explain to Keith, word TEAM is important.
> If we have projects and people own each project, then another people don't
> should mess.
> This don't means any could do any with Squeak.
> That is the essence of Squeak, in private we could change everything !
> But for having success, we need work together.

yes. I want very much to work together with you and Keith, and
also whoever else wants to help.

> I intend remove of ftp as soon some more people agree about which direction
> we must follow.

What does this mean?

-- 
Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/
Help improve Squeak Documentation: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/808