[Seaside] Sending e-mails

Mon May 10 10:57:48 UTC 2010

Just to say that today I managed to implement the automated mail system in
my app and it works flawlessly, so far no e-mails have been flagged as spam,
I'm using sendmail as a mail server, and I pretty much followed the blog
post by Peter Osburg (
http://www.experiencedwebprogramming.com/2008/11/25/sending-emails-with-seaside/)
with some modifications I needed for my own particular case.

Thanks all!

Bernat Romagosa.

2010/5/5 Julian Fitzell <jfitzell at gmail.com>

> I jumped through many of the same hoops in my last job. There are all kinds
> of ways you can end up blocked if you're not careful (if you can, make sure
> the host--read IP--you are using for your outgoing SMTP server is not
> originating *any* other IP traffic).
>
> I'm surprised you would be blocked for passing through relayed SMTP
> servers, though. That is very common and a pretty core part of the SMTP
> system (even gmail relays mail through several SMTP servers). I guess if you
> were relaying through an IP in a dynamic address database, that could get
> your spam score bumped up. But you're going to have a hard time getting
> around that these days.
>
> Although I wonder: can you not configure sendmail on your local machine to
> forward the mail on without adding itself in a Received header? Then it
> should appear to your ISP's server just like you are sending it with any
> other SMTP client directly (hmm... you might have to omit the message ID as
> well?). I'd be curious if that made any difference.
>
> Julian
>
>
> On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 5:06 PM, Nevin Pratt <nevin at bountifulbaby.com>wrote:
>
>>  Julian
>>
>> We used to do that with our Bountiful Baby email.  It works fine.
>> However, it was still flagged as spam for some of our customers, because
>> their email systems noticed that we relayed from a mail server (our local
>> sendmail) on through yet another mail server (the ISP's), and the emails
>> were flagged as suspicious because of that.
>>
>> Before doing the above, we used to rely solely on our own SMTP server and
>> not relay through the ISP, but then some of the email was flagged as spam I
>> *think* because our SMTP server wasn't a well-known server at the time
>> (which is why we started relaying through the ISP's server).
>>
>> We've never found a completely "fool-proof" solution.  Some percentage of
>> the outgoing emails is always going to be flagged as spam, no matter what.
>> The trick is to pick the solution that results in the least spam flags.  And
>> it's not easy.
>>
>> I've now gone back to just using our own SMTP server, rather than relaying
>> through the ISP, for emails that are sent directly from our website, and
>> relaying through the ISP for all the rest.  Now that Bountiful Baby isn't a
>> completely unknown company, I'm thinking that's going to work out to be the
>> best now.  But I'm not sure, and it's still being tested.  And, things seem
>> to always change out from under us, so what works best today might not work
>> best tomorrow.
>>
>> But otherwise I think I would agree with you, and do it the way you
>> suggest.  At least as a starting point.
>>
>> Nevin
>>
>>
>> Configure sendmail to listen only on localhost and forward mail to your
>> ISP's SMTP server. This is likely what I would use in a deployed
>> environment.
>>
>> Julian
>>
>> On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 7:53 AM, AxiNat <tibabenfortlapalanca at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Okay, this is what I found so far (example in SMTPClient):
>>>
>>> self deliverMailFrom: 'm.rueger at acm.org' to: #('m.rueger at acm.org') text:
>>> 'Subject: this is a test
>>>
>>> Hello from Pharo!
>>> '    usingServer: 'smtp.concentric.net'
>>>
>>> I tried that using my own smtp server, but it requires authentication and
>>> doesn't let the e-mail go through. If I try it with a local sendmail daemon,
>>> my guess is that the message is gonna end up in the spam folder of most
>>> people... I remember at university we had this exercises consisting on
>>> sending e-mails through sendmail and straight via telnet, and they would end
>>> up classified as spam, I'm not sure whether this is the same case tho...
>>>
>>> Does someone have further information on that patch that allows
>>> authentication?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>>
>>> 2010/5/5 Lukas Renggli <renggli at gmail.com>
>>>
>>>> Not necessarily, you can connect to any SMTP server. I am not sure if
>>>> authentication is built in nowadays, but there was a patch floating
>>>> around that would add it.
>>>>
>>>> Lukas
>>>>
>>>> On 5 May 2010 08:19, AxiNat <tibabenfortlapalanca at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > I'm on Pharo 1.0, been checking SMTPClient, but it still looks like it
>>>> needs
>>>> > sendmail to be running in the system, or I may totally be
>>>> missunderstanding
>>>> > the way it works, which is a very plausible option possibility...
>>>> >
>>>> > 2010/5/5 Lukas Renggli <renggli at gmail.com>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Seaside does not provide an SMTP library, but most Smalltalk dialects
>>>> >> do. On which Smalltalk are you?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Lukas
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On 5 May 2010 07:21, AxiNat <tibabenfortlapalanca at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >> > Hi all,
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > I'd like to know what's the best way to send e-mails from a seaside
>>>> app,
>>>> >> > so
>>>> >> > far I've read about some Smalltalk SMTP library, using unix
>>>> sendmail or
>>>> >> > sendEmail.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > sendEmail sounds like the easiest method, but I don't like
>>>> depending on
>>>> >> > external tools...
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Any suggestions, tips? Any howtos around?
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Thanks!
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Bernat Romagosa.
>>>> >> >
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>>>> >> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --
>>>> >> Lukas Renggli
>>>> >> www.lukas-renggli.ch
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>>>> >
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>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Lukas Renggli
>>>> www.lukas-renggli.ch
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