[Seaside] Re: Comparison of Aida/Web, Seaside and Iliad web frameworks

[Janko Mivšek]

It is hard to expect from us others to merge into if even its author
admits that Seaside is now obsolete. That is, (from Avi words [1])
Seaside was advanced at the time it was designed, but now it lags behind
(as Ruby on Rails and others too), specially because of JavaScript/Ajax
advances. It is therefore better for Seaside to rather listen to its
author and do something. Or merge already done ideas from us others instead.

Common guys, Ajax is 5 years old, let the Seaside finally come with Ajax
support at least close to that in Iliad and Aida! Then study carefully
what Nicolas Petton and his group is working on Iliad and Jtalk. We are
doing so and incorporating but also extending his ideas in Aida. And on
the other way too, Nico is listening what we are doing. Why not you too?

The most popular Smalltalk web framework sleeping on the successes in
past is namely bad for all Smalltalk, that's why I'd like to open the
debate about the web support in Smalltalk in general.

On the web we have an opportunity, are we loosing it?

That's why I'm pushing this comparison and that's why I'd have and ESUG
talk titled "On the web frontiers with Smalltalk". And a panel is
planned too.

So, Seasiders, come to the web frontiers again by looking what
we others are doing, learn and adopt. And contribute some own innovative
ideas to the Smalltalk on the web again!

Best regards
Janko

[1]
http://www.stic.st/events/smalltalk-solutions-2011-abstracts/smalltalk-and-big-data/

S, Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs piše:
> Nick,
> 
>  
> 
> You nailed it. We all know that Smalltalk community is small and, quite
> possibly, getting smaller, whether we like it or not. The exposure that
> Avi had given to Seaside resulted in a good mass of developers coming on
> board and it becoming a de facto web framework for developing dynamic
> and powerful applications in Smalltalk. Given the state of things today,
> I would honestly much rather see competing frameworks converge on a
> single path and their developers contribute to improving Seaside in
> hopes of it continuing to sustain or gain traction, similar to how RoR
> had pretty much taken over in Rubyland.
> 
>  
> 
> -Boris
> 
>  
> 
> *From:*seaside-bounces at lists.squeakfoundation.org
> [mailto:seaside-bounces at lists.squeakfoundation.org] *On Behalf Of *Nick Ager
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 21, 2011 5:59 PM
> *To:* Seaside - general discussion
> *Subject:* Re: [Seaside] Comparison of Aida/Web, Seaside and Iliad web
> frameworks
> 
>  
> 
> Hi Janko,
> 
>  
> 
> What are you trying to achieve? Is the idea that we come up with some
> feature comparison, add up the ticks in the supported column and declare
> a winner?
> 
>  
> 
> I joined the Smalltalk community because of Seaside or rather because of
> Avi Bryant's, Lukas's and others magical demonstrations that Seaside
> offered a compellingly more productive way of developing web
> applications. Some of the reason I continue to choose Seaside over other
> frameworks:
> 
> * Component based
> 
> * State management
> 
> * DSL for Html generation
> 
> * Neat integration with Scriptaculous and now JQuery for AJAX
> 
> * #call, #answer semantics
> 
> * active, friendly and technically deep development community.
> 
>  
> 
> The question we should be asking ourselves is what compelling features
> can we develop which will attract a set of new developers to Smalltalk,
> otherwise it feels like we're bald men fighting over a comb.
> 
>  
> 
> Nick
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> seaside mailing list
> seaside at lists.squeakfoundation.org
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

-- 
Janko Mivšek
Aida/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si