On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, ducasse wrote:
[snip]
> > [Completely OT meta note here: I always had the feeling that most
> > Smalltalkers love the way the entry barrier to the system is set. It
> > ensures
> > that only people "above threshold" will get into it. It's this kind of
> > self-selection that _really_ drives me crazy when I think about wide
> > adoption. It's the ivory tower syndrome all over]
>
> This does not drive me crazy. I'm just flooded by a huge sadness that
> kills all
> my positive energy....

It seems like some sort of "There are two kinds of most Smalltalkers" line
would be appropriate here. Frankly, I just don't believe this, and would
prefer actual specific accusations to this "most Smalltalkers" or
"maybe most Smalltalkers like to whine and moan". This is bogus. I don't
see anyone in this or similar threads arguing from the "Boot out the
newbies" snobbish pov, and it tires *me* to have y'all carp this way.

Specifically, it seemed like Ian was arguing, perhaps wrongly, that his
*actual* experience of the ObjCy pattern was that it was worse, from a
simplicity perspective. Folks like Richard were, I think, arguing that the
proposed change was confusing or simply a bad default. They may be *wrong*
but I don't see why we have to imply that they (or the mysterious
MostSmalltalkerCabal) are against people getting into Smalltalk.

It reminds me of the guy in the Documentation More more more who just
asserted completely silly things about how this community, or the
mysterious Squeak Gurus, didn't want to help newbies because we don't
spend EVEN MORE of our time creating a centralized documentation site with
massively uptodate documentation. And *this* is what holds squeak back
from wide adoption.

Or the recurring "Change the syntax to look like Java or visual basic and
rule the world" line that thankfully hasn't cropped up in a while.

And yay, here I am contributing to a megathread I barely have time and
energy to skim. Clearly, *I* am the problem! Shoot/unsubscribe me, Bijan,
the scourage of newbies, enemy of documentation and progress, ivory tower
snooting gatekeeping troglodyte! Yes, I do work for Microsoft and just AM
a clever plot to stifle all democratizing innovation in the computer
world.

Fear me.

Cheers,
Bijan Parsia.