Hi,
I want to jump into the discussion because IMHO it’s a very important 
one. I see the topic “what is the best web site” in a wider range. For 
me it’s about the potential of Squeak as a development platform in the 
*commercial* area. I guess all of the Squeak guys here on the list want 
to see a growth of Squeak (also) in the business domain. And my posting 
only reflects the business view.

I will tell you my impression as a person who isn’t related to the 
Squeak community. But I’ve used Smalltalk heavily in the nineties for 
big commercial projects and therefore I *really* know the power of 
Smalltalk – nobody needs to convince me.

A week ago I was looking for a agile environment to wrap a RDBS and make 
some forms to query and manipulate the tables. When googling around I 
found links about GLORP, Seaside and Squeak. This was my starting point 
for digging deeper into the topic “Squeak”. I’ve tried to get an 
impression for myself whether Squeak is something my company can use for 
business. I wouldn’t have invest all this time if I did not know 
Smalltalk from the past. And indeed the current web site 
(www.squeak.org) wouldn’t have convinced me to invest more time in 
reading it. But I’ve got curious about my “old love Smalltalk”.

So let me tell you, what I’ve did. When I’m investigating a new product 
or technology I try to find answers to two aspects. 1) How stable and 
productive is the product/technology *now* and 2) how it will develop in 
the *future*. 2) is mainly related how big the community behind a 
product is and also (!) how the community reacts and how the community 
is organized (IMO very important in the Open Source area).

Ok, long talk for an introduction I will tell you now honestly my 
personal impression in some notes to my points 1) and 2):

- I was impressed what Squeak can deliver *today* for some of my 
business needs. But there is no central entry point (or I haven’t found) 
where I could find all the answers to my questions on the web. Probably 
somebody else would have give up searching soon (or immediately).

- From the central web site and Wiki I’ve got the impression that Squeak 
is a Smalltalk environment related in the educational area. I’m missing 
a clear statement for using it in business.

- Whether somebody likes or dislikes a web site is of course a 
subjective feeling but I agree 100% with Stef and Adrian that the 
current web site prevents to see Squeak as an environment for commercial 
purpose. Indeed I wouldn’t tell my potential customers that it’s Squeak 
that powers his new application but say it’s Smalltalk (of course this 
depends to the kind of customers).

I’ve got the impression that Squeak in the business domain is driven by 
a small circle of enthusiastic individualists. I’ve also recognized some 
companies are using it for business. And there are some Universities 
that teach and make fancy things. But from what I’ve seen at the first 
view I have *not* got the impression there is or will be much growth. 
Squeak is in a niche and it will stay there. On the other hand when I 
consider the benefits of Smalltalk and take into account all the free 
packages that are available *today* for Squeak I see a high potential! 
(Again: I’m only talking about the aspect “Squeak as a commercial 
development platform", what for me means people can make revenue with it.).

I believe here is a big mismatch. The question is how to fix it. The web 
site of Squeak is the entrance into the Squeak world. It’s Squeak’s 
business card. I would argue this business card doesn’t fit to the 
business needs (again I only focusing the topic “using Squeak for 
commercial development”). I would like to see a site that is totally 
focused on that topic (e.g. squeak4business.org). Here I want to get all 
my answers. Such a site would be a first step. This doesn’t mean that 
Squeak has to become commercial driven. But you have to give the new 
Squeak applicants in the business area a single consistent view and 
don’t irritate them with a pink bunny.

To achieve this you need some key people that take the leadership and 
push the growth of Squeak in the business domain. Nothing comes from 
alone! You need some common goals, mile stones, etc. My company is using 
Plone and IMO the Plone people have managed to install such an 
environment to grow their business. Look at the site www.plone.org and 
you will get an impression what I mean.

For me the question of Squeak’s web site is only one aspect (Btw, I also 
would argue that the new one is better suited for business needs). The 
real question for me is, whether you - as the Squeak community - are 
willing to push the usage of Squeak in the business domain. If you 
answer with a “yes” then you should discuss the question, how to achieve 
this…

Regards,
Franz Josef