Squeak-dev August 1998

squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org

99 participants
188 discussions

Oops.
by Chris Reuter 26 Aug '98

26 Aug '98

> > i don't know how i got on your list, but i wish all you geeks would quit [...] > You've subscribed to a mailing list. To get off it, send a message to [...] Sorry. This was supposed to go directly to the sender. Oh well, he's got the message now if he still needs it. Since I'm wasting bandwidth anyway, I may as well throw in my 0.02 asCurrency on the whole #nil vs. nil issue and say that IMHO the right way to go is to follow ANSI. I've always thought of true, false and nil as literals and "#" used to denote a symbol. It surprised me to learn that #1 is an integer rather than a symbol. --Chris

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Browser Autolabeling
by m3rabb＠stono.com 26 Aug '98

26 Aug '98

I often have a million Browsers open while I work. To manage the space, I iconify the windows. Unfortunately, it is a pain to tell one iconified window from another without renaming the window. As much as I jump around from message to message, and from class to class, it is a pain to keep the window labels up to date ... until now. The Browser Autolabeler ChangeSet automatically keeps the standard and hierarchical browser window labels up to date. The labels include category info when appropriate. It also makes Cmd-H create a HierarchyBrowser on the selected text. The code is temporarily at: http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak.397 Enjoy! --Maurice --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Maurice Rabb 773.281.6003 Stono Technologies, LLC Chicago, USA

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RE: Squeak on Apple Rhapsody/Mac OS Server
by Van Rooy, Russell 26 Aug '98

26 Aug '98

Oh poor baby Dickee. Whipped by a lil' o'l computer. There is this little button on your computer - ( kum - Pue - Terrr); can you say that? that says "off",I suggest you use it before you reveal to us just how ignorant you really iz. -R -----The Voice Of The Unwashed Massess states----- From: Dicky T [mailto:iamtv@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 1998 4:43 PM To: squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu Cc: recipient list not shown; @cs.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: Squeak on Apple Rhapsody/Mac OS Server i wish all you pencil-necked geeks would quit sending me dozens of messages about this obscure computer shit. You people need to get a life.

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Re: nil or #nil?
by Dicky T 26 Aug '98

26 Aug '98

you people are pathetically geeky. Get your heads out of your pocket protectors and get a life. >From squeak-request(a)cs.uiuc.edu Tue Aug 25 16:25:26 1998 >Received: (qmail 184 invoked by uid 95); 25 Aug 1998 23:24:51 -0000 >Resent-Date: 25 Aug 1998 23:24:51 -0000 >Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; >Message-ID: <35E34677.E72D5B64(a)ipa.net> >Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 18:19:19 -0500 >From: Dwight Hughes <dwighth(a)ipa.net> >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu >Subject: Re: nil or #nil? >References: <199808250148.UAA18128(a)smtp.jump.net> <v0401171cb20882803e11(a)[9.2.186.178]> <35E30B7D.36F85DD6(a)ipa.net> <35E30FB9.3023(a)unx.sas.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Resent-Message-ID: <"q589FB.A.8-H.4e041"@jerry> >Resent-From: squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu >Reply-To: squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu >X-Mailing-List: <squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu> archive/latest/3069 >X-Loop: squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu >Precedence: list >Resent-Sender: squeak-request(a)cs.uiuc.edu > >Dana Anthony wrote: >> >> Dwight Hughes wrote: > ---snip--- >> > >> > In this light, nil, true, and false are literals - but so are #nil, >> > #true, and #false -- the problem right now is that nil ~~ #nil, true ~~ >> > #true, and false ~~ #false, which is a bit counterintuitive. Would it >> > outrage anyone to consider nil, true and false to be syntactic sugar for >> > #nil, #true, and #false? >> > >> > -- Dwight >> >> You bet people would be outraged. >> Mainly because of a simple fact: #nil, #true, and #false are instances >> of Symbol. >> >> nil is an instance of UndefinedObject; true is of True and false of >> False. > >Well, I consider nil, true, and false to all be symbols -- in the >generic sense -- and consider the schizm between them and instances of >Symbol to be an design artifact forced upon Dan and crew to compensate >for the single inheritance class structure and the limiting of method >dispatch to the class of the receiver (instead of the receiver itself). >So Dan waved his keyboard and said: "Let there be true and false and >nil, and let each take unto itself a class and a place in the hierarchy, >by which each shall be known to all." I understand your objections >within the present Squeak/Smalltalk design, but I also find that having >#nil, #true, and #false be meaningless symbols with no correspondence to >nil, true, and false to be rather ugly. > >> How can a symbol be == to an undefinedObject or a boolean? It cannot. > >That depends on how badly I want to win this debate ;-). > >> That's just not object oriented :) :) > >Ever hear of multiple inheritance? A dandy concept for situations like >this (and for diverting attention from the topic at hand). (For those >interested in such things, "closure based" multiple inheritance (as >implemented in Idol - an object-oriented variant of Icon) is worth >checking out: http://www.cs.utsa.edu/research/idol/closure.ps.) > >-- Dwight > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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Re: nil or #nil?
by Tim Olson 26 Aug '98

26 Aug '98

Dan wrote: >>Right now, the rule for what #() does is pretty simple. Part of the >>Smalltalk design approach is to minimize the number of rules wherever >>possible, even if this means it doesn't always provide the absolute >>most convenient result. Stefan replied: >I hate to contradict the inventor of the language, but the current rule for >literal arrays is more difficult than needed. Why are symbols represented >differently inside literal arrays than outside. IMHO, the rule should be >that #(a b) is an error and only #(#a #b) is permitted. This would allow >one to simplify the BNF-rule for literals... I think the BNF simplification argument is a reasonable one, but I view the current semantics a bit differently. The Scheme programming language defines literal vectors and lists the same way Squeak currently does, where the description is: (quote <datum>) evaluates to <datum>. <datum> may be any external representation of a Scheme object. (quote <datum>) may be abbreviated as '<datum> 'a => a '(a b c) => (a b c) Note there is no quoting "inside" the list, as the list itself is the entity being quoted, and is written just like its external representation is printed. Likewise in Squeak, #a => a #(a b c) => (a b c) >And on Tim's argument, that if nil should be nil and not #nil because >literal arrays don't evaluate self-evaluating objects, then #( 1 ) at: 1 >would have to answer the symbol #'1', not the small integer 1. Well, #1 answers the SmallInteger 1, not the Symbol 1. Again, the same as in Scheme (integer? '1) => #t " '1 is the same as 1 " >I think, nil, true and false should evaluate as expected to nil, true and >false. All, VW, VA and Dolphin (probably also ST MT and ST/X) follow this >rule. The argument for compatibility is also a somewhat strong one, but I still think it comes at the expense of "cleanliness" and simplicity. >You cannot evaluate self or super (or thisContext) inside literal arrays, >because they aren't literals but pseudo variables. >It might be interesting to be able to unquote some parts of a literal >array, as you could do in Lisp, however. Something like > >#,(#answer ,(6*8)) > >which would answer #(#answer 48)... This sounds much like Dan's description of ->( I think it would be somewhat useful as well, although the brace notation already handles this (i.e. we have a way to create an array of non-evaluated literals, and a way to create an array of evaluated expressions). -- tim

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Squeak on Apple Rhapsody/Mac OS Server
by Philip Mtteli 25 Aug '98

25 Aug '98

Hi Has anybody ported Squeak to Apple Rhapsody/Mac OS Server? Re Phil

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Re: nil or #nil?
by Timothy Shank 25 Aug '98

25 Aug '98

sorry, wrong address >From squeak-request(a)cs.uiuc.edu Tue Aug 25 14:03:25 1998 >Received: (qmail 21978 invoked by uid 95); 25 Aug 1998 21:02:23 -0000 >Resent-Date: 25 Aug 1998 21:02:23 -0000 >Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; >Message-Id: <m0zBQAR-000GIhC(a)kali.gemstone.com> >Date: Tue, 25 Aug 98 13:58 PDT >From: Patrick Logan <patrickl(a)servio.gemstone.com> >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >To: squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu >Subject: Re: nil or #nil? >In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980825133836.0304b568(a)mail.instantiations.com> >References: <cb17dad3.35e30a0b(a)aol.com> > <m0zBOUi-000GIhC(a)kali.gemstone.com> > <3.0.3.32.19980825133836.0304b568(a)mail.instantiations.com> >X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid >Resent-Message-ID: <"z4v5MC.A.xTF.UZy41"@jerry> >Resent-From: squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu >Reply-To: squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu >X-Mailing-List: <squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu> archive/latest/3065 >X-Loop: squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu >Precedence: list >Resent-Sender: squeak-request(a)cs.uiuc.edu > > > Slipperly slope warning: > > Then > | x y z| > ^#(x y z) > should be equivalent to: > | x y z| > ^Array with: x with: y with: z > > In which case you don't have an array literal at all, you have a > dynamic array constructor. > >Good point. These ramblings about array "literals" should be appended >with "plus or minus the vs. multiple copy issue". > >-- >Patrick Logan mailto:patrickl@gemstone.com >Voice 503-533-3365 Fax 503-629-8556 >Gemstone Systems, Inc http://www.gemstone.com > >"No question that an admission of making false statements to government > officials and interfering with the FBI is an impeachable offense." > -- Bill Clinton, ARKANSAS GAZETTE, August 8, 1974, page 7-A. > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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Re: nil or #nil?
by Patrick Logan 25 Aug '98

25 Aug '98

Slipperly slope warning: Then | x y z| ^#(x y z) should be equivalent to: | x y z| ^Array with: x with: y with: z In which case you don't have an array literal at all, you have a dynamic array constructor. Good point. These ramblings about array "literals" should be appended with "plus or minus the vs. multiple copy issue". -- Patrick Logan mailto:patrickl@gemstone.com Voice 503-533-3365 Fax 503-629-8556 Gemstone Systems, Inc http://www.gemstone.com "No question that an admission of making false statements to government officials and interfering with the FBI is an impeachable offense." -- Bill Clinton, ARKANSAS GAZETTE, August 8, 1974, page 7-A.

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Squeak on Apple Rhapsody/Mac OS Server
by Philip Mtteli 25 Aug '98

25 Aug '98

Hi Has anybody ported Squeak to Apple Rhapsody/Mac OS Server? Re Phil

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RE: nil or #nil? (What the ANSI Standard says)
by Allen Wirfs-Brock 25 Aug '98

25 Aug '98

At 03:13 PM 8/25/98 -0400, Jarvis, Robert P. wrote: .... >The equivalent in Squeak, > > #(fo ob ar) > >appears not to be allowed in ANSI Smalltalk (or more likely >I just don't understand which literal form fo, ob, and ar would >take). > The meaning of identifies other than 'true', 'false', and 'nil' in literal arrays is explicitly specified as undefined. In the context of the standard "undefined" means: "If a feature is denoted undefined a conforming implementation may accept a program using the feature, but must document that it does so. A conforming implementation is not required to accept an undefined feature. A program that is dependent upon the use of an undefined feature does not conform to the standard." In other words, an implementation may define an "undefined feature" to mean anything it wants or may flag its use as an error. Undefined features generally exist to provide a compatibility hook with non-standardized features in existing implementations or to provide a hook that allows future language extensions. If you program uses such an undefined feature the program does not conform to the standard and hence may not be portable to other standard conforming implementations of the language. In this case it means that an implementation could choose to define the occurrence of such identifiers to mean what it does in Smalltalk-80 or it could define such an occurrence to mean something else, or it can treat it as an error. Allen_Wirfs-Brock(a)Instantiations.com

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