Squeak-dev October 2001

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191 participants
600 discussions

Re: Celeste improvements!
by Fleeberz＠aol.com 01 Oct '01

01 Oct '01

In a message dated 2001-10-01 7:40:15 AM, goran.hultgren(a)bluefish.se writes: >Two things that I would like in Celeste: > >1. Some form of tracking of "read messages", color changed or whatever. >2. Threading. Also, I have noticed that Celeste doesn't send >"in-reply-to" and uses 'X-Mailer' instead of 'user-agent' (read >somewhere that X-Mailer is deprecated or something). But that is very >easy to fix of course. > >Before I start fiddling with this, has anybody already done this or do >I >have "everything" if I do an update? You have everything! Fix it now dammit! And let us sort ascending/descending by from/date/subject and use special extra color for messages you've replied to, with link to the reply (sent mail being saved as well, as usual). Maybe add "must get back to this" memory-jogger for "priority" mail you wish to read later/in more detail/wish to reply to, but "can't do it right now." Add a ranking system, some arbitrary tag (numeric, alpha, whatever) maybe to allow later global filtering by relevance. For example, "Show me all the last 2 weeks worth of mail that wasn't friendly chitchat, flames or apologies." Could be multi-coded for code snippets/links, documentation, things to do, etc. Sure, we have [BUG][FIX][UPDATES][OT] but not everyone applies these consistently; OTOH, "live" editing of Subjects would be nice, as long as subsequent messages with same subject get "reedited" automagically, so we could add a [BUG] to "Can't run simulator on TI-83" and then use the usual filtering at some future date to find gems like that. --Flee ALL YOUR {} ARE BELONG TO US

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Re: Celeste - How to sort by field?
by Mike Rutenberg 01 Oct '01

01 Oct '01

The short answer is that you can displayed messages sorted based on the displayed message information. The selected messages are always displayed in cronological order. I actually don't miss the column based sorting much (this is not always true though, and it would be nice to have in Celeste). Using the Subject and Participant filter, I can quickly find most historical messages with ease. A neat trick you can play is to also use the custom filter to select the messages you want. For instance, to display the messages which are greater than 100kb, create a custom filter that uses m textLength > 100000 And obviously that can be combined with the Subject and Participant filter. Mike

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Celeste improvements!
by goran.hultgren＠bluefish.se 01 Oct '01

01 Oct '01

Two things that I would like in Celeste: 1. Some form of tracking of "read messages", color changed or whatever. 2. Threading. Also, I have noticed that Celeste doesn't send "in-reply-to" and uses 'X-Mailer' instead of 'user-agent' (read somewhere that X-Mailer is deprecated or something). But that is very easy to fix of course. Before I start fiddling with this, has anybody already done this or do I have "everything" if I do an update? regards, Göran

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Augh...
by Daniel Joyce 01 Oct '01

01 Oct '01

Okay, how I play a sound under Squeak? What class is used by the system to play sounds when morphs are added/removed? I've tried looking in Morph, but the class is a mess. ( Is anyone working on a rewrite? ). I find it sad that for a system that supports so much easy OOP, that things are not terribly clean, or refactored. So, A) I'd like to know the best place to look on where sounds are played, and how they are stored in Squeak ( what's the buffer used? ). B) I'd like to help to rewrite Morphic ( It needs a lot of help, it seems the base Class Morph is BALLOONING with features every release ). Squeak seems to suffer from too much enthusiasm, and too little design sometimes... ;) Daniel

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Re: Computerchannel.de: Squeak 3.0 tested
by Fleeberz＠aol.com 01 Oct '01

01 Oct '01

In a message dated 2001-09-27 1:52:27 AM, cg(a)cdegroot.com writes: -><Fleeberz(a)aol.com> said: ->Oh, and complaining that the English-only interface is a hindrance, ->well, Computerchannel.de is German-only, but I was still able to ->figure out what they were talking about. >What a dumb remark. They're talking about kids here, and I can assure >you that the average kid's English outside the US or UK is by far not >enough to use Squeak. If Squeak aims to be something for kids, it needs >to be internationalized. What an absolute moron I was for failing to consider the considerable focus of the Squeak community regarding the Children of the World. Obviously, I must have taken the "English-only" complaint out of context, thinking that the *reviewer*, rather than the *potential user* could have tried harder to make sense of the (currently) English-centric implementation. Speaking of dumbness, I guess you'll just have to take that up with the fool(s) who haven't internationalised Squeak yet - after all, why should they even suggest the possibility of children using the thing unless the menus can easily be set to display in Farsi or Erzya, never mind the absurdity of English-named classes, methods, and all that. We've supported Unicode for some time now, right? And what about the blind Gagauzian-speaking kids? Is the text-to-speech functionality unfairly biased against them? My point is that I, being a stupid English-speaking American, having no fluency whatsoever in any but my native language, had never before attempted to read "foreign" information on Squeak, because of the abundance of English material available which is so much more understandable to me. I falsely believed that Squeak was continuing to evolve, and wasn't expected to be everything to everyone all at once. The astute reviewer rightly criticized Squeak for failing to have evolved sufficiently for a global audience of adults, let alone children. Surely, had I an iota of a clue, I would have realized that the important thing to do regarding this matter would be to complain about an inadequate localization framework - too bad I missed that chance. Shame on you, Cees, for chastising me for my obvious ignorance. My respect for you has been betrayed; I would have expected you "Germanize" Squeak instead, if that's what it's begging for, and perhaps write some comprehensible on-line tutorials as well. If anyone needs tutorials that a 9- or 10-year-old could understand, it's me. I can't afford the ridiculous price of the Squeak (Smalltalk...) books, and from what I read on this list, that's the only way to ever figure it out. You and others can spend hundreds (thousands?) of dollars to fly around and chat with other OOP aficionados, I can't. That's what makes you better than me. I am happy for you. Keep on Squeakin' --Flee Never meddle in the affairs of idiots, it makes them soggy and hard to light.

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New idiom for conditional testing?
by danielv＠netvision.net.il 01 Oct '01

01 Oct '01

I was looking at a Lint report, and it found this method - RenameVariableChange>>= = aRenameVariableChange self class = aRenameVariableChange class ifFalse: [^false]. ^className = aRenameVariableChange changeClassName and: [isMeta = aRenameVariableChange isMeta and: [oldName = aRenameVariableChange oldName and: [newName = aRenameVariableChange newName]]] Lint was bothered by the use of a guard clause for the first check. Lint believes in #and:. I was bothered because it's ugly. I'd prefer something less cluttered. We have blocks, we can abstract it! How about this - ^{[self class = aRenameVariableChange class]. [className = aRenameVariableChange changeClassName]. [isMeta = aRenameVariableChange isMeta]. [oldName = aRenameVariableChange oldName]. [newName = aRenameVariableChange newName]} allTrue Note that the conditions should be tested in order and lazily - stops at the first false. The implementation is as follows - Collection>>allTrue ^self detect: [:e | e value not] ifNone: [nil]) isNil What do you think? Any other ideas on how to factor this sort of code? Daniel

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Re: Why we should remove {} from Squeak
by Fleeberz＠aol.com 01 Oct '01

01 Oct '01

In a message dated 2001-10-01 8:31:37 AM, spair(a)advantive.com writes: >I'm not arguing against using mathematical precedence, just that the >idea be carefully considered. Also, there are many mathematical >expressions that cannot be rendered in plain text. Why not augment >Squeak with the complete language of mathematics instead? Let's allow >a >mathematical expression to be constructed using a full graphical >representation and then be dropped into a method. Why not? I'm not up to the task, but it could be a "cute" project for someone to work on a specialized graphical editor for mathematics, nothing too all-inclusive, but which could indeed "keep track of" what's being edited sufficiently to produce a representative Smalltalk expression. Seems to me (YMMV), nothing all THAT tricky would be required beyond the 2D region mapping for "zones of acceptance" for the formula parts... move pointer over suitable regions, they highlight for character entry if appropriate, click to create a submorph as needed, click within highlight to edit, drag handy parts from a bin into the formula, do simple algebra as terms are dragged around, etc. Yeah. So simple. Sure would be fun though! --Flee

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Re: Computerchannel.de: Squeak 3.0 tested
by Fleeberz＠aol.com 01 Oct '01

01 Oct '01

In a message dated 2001-09-30 1:14:18 PM, karl.ramberg(a)chello.se writes: Fleeberz(a)aol.com wrote: >> I haven't gotten the hang of Smalltalk AT ALL yet, ... >The way I learned was by finding a simple morphic demo or program, >change a few parameters, open the morph and see what had happened... >Do this over and over again until you know what to change to get >what you want. Then expand by cutting and pasting in code from other >places, testing and debugging a few thousen times you will suddenly >just know how to do it the next time. A few thousand times? Oh weary me. I know that is not as much of a joke as it sounds like (although I can appreciate some humor from it as well), and is really likely to be a low estimate for many people, er, me. ;^) >I allways browse with optinal buttons on and use the senders of and >implementors of all the time to see how stuff is used elsewere in >the image. Surely I've seen references to these things, but can't seem to recall where; looks like it's time to start looking. With luck, I'll trip over them early in the "search." Will be looking for preferences, and perhaps browser menu items such as "show implementors of..." and so on. See? It's easy! (?) Thanks, Karl. I'd ask Cees or Bijan about it, but considering how I've treated those wonderful people in the past, I'm better off having my tail between my legs than nothing at all. :-/ (C, B, I'm sorry. Me bad.) --Flee

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RE: Skip Lists?!
by Pennell, David 01 Oct '01

01 Oct '01

> Hmm, with "main" memory being so much slower than cache, btrees might > even start making sense for in-memory structures. But not necessarily > for Squeak, where an "array of foo's" won't necessarily have > all of the > foo's next to each other, anyway, and thus where accessing > items within > a node still causes fetches to distant parts of memory. You might want to take a look at: Cache Conscious Indexing for Decision-Support in Main Memory (Jun Rao and Kenneth Ross at Columbia University) http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/rao99cache.html If the foo's are SmallInteger's, it could be interesting, but probably not for the general case. -david

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RE: Edited Volume in stores July 13
by Andy Stoffel 01 Oct '01

01 Oct '01

Just wondering when this will be available :-).... > Squeak: Open Personal Computing and Multimedia > Edited by Mark Guzdial and Kimberly Rose > > Paperback - 544 pages 1st edition (July 15, 2001) > Prentice Hall; ISBN: 0130280917 > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0130280917/ref=sim_books/002-1882326- 3041605 Amazon says July 25th @$39 but doesn't have any while Borders notes it's existance but has no date other than "July 2001" and no price (Though I was able to pick up the other Squeak book "Squeak: Object-Oriented Design with Multimedia Applications" at my local Borders several weeks after it came out for less than it would have cost to get it shipped from Amazon (Which now wants $45 for that particular book & Borders seems to think is either hard to find or out of print... though I saw a copy 2 weeks ago at the same Borders I bought my copy at.... odd....)) So I'd like to get a copy before it goes out of print %-).... -Andy-

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