Squeak-dev October 2001

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191 participants
600 discussions

Re: Why we should remove {} from Squeak
by Richard A. O'Keefe 01 Oct '01

01 Oct '01

"David N. Smith (IBM)" <dnsmith(a)watson.ibm.com> pointed out: HeadMorph>>addSpikyHair | hair | hair _ PolygonMorph vertices: {83@3. 81@30. 91@27. 111@23. 97@32. 112@37. 99@45. 114@52. ... } Anyone who wants to simplify the parser by eliminating {...} could simplify it still further by eliminating #(...) as well. After all, #(...) can be eliminated just like {...}. It has always seemed a shame that there was no way to get a Point into a literal array. It could be done: where <number> is allowed, allow <number>@<number>. That would be a special case, but the whole of #(...) is a special case. I agree that {...} is useful. {e1. ... . en} is equivalent to (OrderedCollection new "note no semicolon" add: (e1); ... add: (en); asArray) so it obviously CAN be eliminated. That doesn't mean it should be. #@ can be eliminated too: aNumber @ anotherNumber is equivalent to Point x: aNumber y: anotherNumber. That doesn't mean #@ should be eliminated. The practical questions are - would eliminating this feature save more code in the parser and elsewhere than it would cost in all the code using it (remember, not all such code is known to SqC or anyone else) - is ideological purity worth the loss of clarity? - would it be feasible to make {} support a module? At 8:49 +0200 9/30/01, ducasse stephane wrote: >#() is necessary because it is compiled statically and cannot not be >simulated by other construct. Storing #() in Stack frame is not really goo >but this is an implementation aspect. This is false. Any use of # can be eliminated by adding a class variable and a class method using lazy initialisation. For example, #( abc 'abc' 4 3.4 $r ) can be written as MyClass literal27 where MyClass class>>literal27 literal27 ifNil: [ literal27 := (OrderedCollection new add: 'abc' asSymbol; add: 'abc'; add: 4; add: 3.4; add: $r; asArray)]. ^literal27 Come to think of it, we could eliminate $r and 'abc' too: 'abc' is (String fromPacked: 6382179) allButFirst $r is Character value: 114. So #(abc 'abc' 4 3.4 $r) can, by reductio ad absurdum, be replaced by MyClass class>>literal27 literal27 ifNil: [ literal27 := (OrderedCollection new add: (String fromPacked: 6382179) allButFirst asSymbol; add: (String fromPacked: 6382179) allButFirst; add: 4; add: 3.4; add: (Character value: 114); asArray)]. ^literal27 without any non-numeric literals at all. This is hardly less ridiculous than removing {}.

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Re: Computerchannel.de: Squeak 3.0 tested
by danielv＠netvision.net.il 01 Oct '01

01 Oct '01

Neal Stephanson's "The Diamond age (or: A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer)" has interesting things to say about such a device, and is fun SF, besides. Daniel Vainsencher "Richard A. O'Keefe" <ok(a)atlas.otago.ac.nz> wrote: > > Well, I was thinking more along the lines of Roboteacher :o) where anyone > can download the program over the web and get a good solid education in > literacy and grammar just as the well educated people get. > > Is this something that exists? Where can I read more about it?

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Re: Celeste - How to sort by field? (correction)
by Mike Rutenberg 01 Oct '01

01 Oct '01

(Corrects misleading typo in first paragraph) The short answer is that you can NOT choose how messages are sorted, other than by changing the underlying code. The selected messages are always displayed in cronological order. I actually don't miss the column based sorting much (this is not always true though, and it would be nice to have in Celeste). Using the Subject and Participant filter, I can quickly find most historical messages with ease. A neat trick you can play is to also use the custom filter to select the messages you want. For instance, to display the messages which are greater than 100kb, create a custom filter that uses m textLength > 100000 And obviously that can be combined with the Subject and Participant filter. Mike

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Getting accents into Squeak
by John Hinsley 01 Oct '01

01 Oct '01

I've just noticed this (the localisation stuff may have some kind of bearing on it, but......). There I was trying to put a name with "ü" (that's u with a dieresis, I think) in my Rolodex. Of course, you can copy and paste into a workspace and it'll appear correctly, but you can't copy and paste into a Text or ShowEmptyText morph (maybe I should take a look at that -- I think it would be useful). But is there any way (and here I'm working in Linux -- I guess the old number pad method works in Windows) of typing it in directly, given a UK keyboard? (Here, locales or foreign keyboards are not really a viable option: I'd need some bizzare combination of Italian, German and Spanish. Cheers John -- Can't cope anymore? Desperate for help? Join the 12 step program for those who yearn to give up Microsoft: http://home.earthlink.net/~penguinrox/index.html

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[modules] Cutting the knot
by Dan Ingalls 01 Oct '01

01 Oct '01

-- Folks - I feel the need to cut what has become a Gordian knot. By the end of this week I intend to issue Henrik's module code as updates to Squeak 3.1alpha. While this may look selfish or irrational, I think it's the right thing to do, and at this point someone will likely be unhappy no matter what we do. Our top priorities for modules in Squeak are: Support modularity of active Squeak content distributed as projects on the Internet Support an ecology of interrelated enhancements to Squeak from throughout the community Keep it small and simple. This is a Squeak Central perspective. Others surely have other priorities. We feel that as soon as we achieve the first goal, Squeak will disappear. In other words, the significance of Squeak as a vehicle for easily-authored multimedia content will dwarf that of Squeak as a development environment, and all the activity of this mailing list will likely pale by comparison to work on active content. The ModSqueak work is an excellent system with a somewhat different set of priorities. It could be made to serve these ends, but I foresee constant conflict in trying to do so. I prefer to proceed directly toward these goals with Henrik's code, and to allow the ModSqueak facilities to remain one of the packages that can be easily loaded by anyone who wants its particular benefits. In adopting this approach we will take care that nothing in the resident module scheme interferes with loading and using ModSqueak as now. Presumably a great deal could actually be shared, once the dust settles a bit, and loading should, of course, become simpler. What is important is that ModSqueak can remain just what its authors intended it to be, and the the resident module system can be tweaked into a lean and effective architecture for community sharing and active media on the web. Those who have followed the full modules discussion will recognize that our first priority here is really more of a component architecture, and this is true. At the same time, we feel that the module kernel will serve well the needs of the Squeak community for collaboration and distribution of add-on packages, as well as producing reduced images for PDAs, servers and other applications. Yours on behalf of SqC (and wearing asbestos today ;-) - Dan

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Re: [ENH][EXPERIMENTAL] Localization browser
by goran.hultgren＠bluefish.se 01 Oct '01

01 Oct '01

"Andreas Raab" <Andreas.Raab(a)gmx.de> wrote: > Folks, > > As mentioned, attached is a rough outline of how I think a decent > localization browser could work. First of all, file in *ONLY* the [MEGASNIP] Sounds cool indeed! Hmmm, people have really been pumping stuff out on the list this weekend, personally I spent it painting the house hung over... ;-) regards, Göran

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Re: Getting accents into Squeak
by Richard A. O'Keefe 01 Oct '01

01 Oct '01

Torge Husfeldt <jean-jacques.gelee(a)gmx.de> wrote: The other solution I saw was the Sun-keyboards wich use a dedicated combine-key. The Sun model 3 keyboard doesn't have it. On the "English" Sun keyboards that do, it is labelled "Compose". The first time I saw such a thing was on DEC terminals; I have always thought that's where it came from. In the X Window System the compose key is regarded as obsolete; it took me _ages_ to track down a list of which keys to use to get what character. These days you are supposed to use 'input methods' instead, but at least on this Solaris 2.8 box I have not been about to track down any information about them.

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Re: About Squeak evolution
by Dan Ingalls 01 Oct '01

01 Oct '01

ducasse stephane <ducasse(a)iam.unibe.ch> wrote (in a pvt msg)... >Hi dan, > >I was wondering if it would not be wise to have an official version of >Squeak now. Like that we can have the time to work on the new versions with >modules. > >Else the module process from my experience may take some time and having a >new version now could be referred as the version before the modules. >Especially because 3.0 was put together in a hurry and is not really good >for demoes and the like. For example I'm writing columns and I'm referring >to 2.8 because 3.0 has broken examples and I would love to move to 3.1. In >addition this also give a new release which is good (like microsoft) people >have to upgrade. As an example I could put 3.1 on the cd with the article >and say the new Squeak ;). Hi, Steph - Ahh... a message I agree with. (;-). Yes, I think you're absolutely right. I'm wedged with a couple of other projects, but in the next day or two, I'll issue Doug's most recent harvesting (35 updates) and seal off 3.1 alpha. Requestors of updates will be given a choice of going to 3.2 alpha, or settling in to 3.1 beta. We'll keep the 3.1 beta updates open for a week or two, and then declare it 3.1 final. Incidentally the main failure with 3.0, in my opinion, was that no one took full responsibility for the final phase where fixes and nothing else should have been carefully added, and then a final clean image posted. This is a place where SqF, and the harvester-types especially, could be a great help. It is my hope that a few people who are motivated to see a nice stable 3.1 release will organize themselves and help out by selecting and testing all updates appropriate to 3.1 after it goes beta. Given such help, I am willing, as time allows (meaning probably after OOPSLA), to do all the normal work of tidying up the image once we have settled on the final updates (I'll probably send out a gamma image for this purpose near the end). Following the step to 3.2 alpha, I will issue the module updates, so 3.2 will be (at least "weakly") modular from the start. - Dan --

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Re: Augh...
by Bob Arning 01 Oct '01

01 Oct '01

On Mon, 1 Oct 2001 19:33:19 -0500 Daniel Joyce <daniel.a.joyce(a)att.net> wrote: > What class is used by the system to play sounds when morphs are >added/removed? > > I've tried looking in Morph, but the class is a mess. Well, let's see... Removing a morph means, I guess, clicking on the pink handle which has balloon help saying 'remove from screen'. So I type 'remove from screen' in a workspace and press ctrl-e. Up pops a browser with a single method containing that string. That method strongly suggests that I would be interesed in a method #mouseDownInDimissHandle:with:, so I look at implementers of that and there is one in HaloMorph -- mouseDownInDimissHandle: evt with: dismissHandle ... Preferences soundsEnabled ifTrue: [TrashCanMorph playMouseEnterSound]. ... Well, this is what happens on mouse down, what happens on mouse up? Senders of #mouseDownInDimissHandle:with: reveals (also from HaloMorph) -- addDismissHandle: handleSpec | dismissHandle | dismissHandle _ self addHandle: handleSpec on: #mouseDown send: #mouseDownInDimissHandle:with: to: self. dismissHandle on: #mouseUp send: #maybeDismiss:with: to: self. dismissHandle on: #mouseDown send: #setDismissColor:with: to: self. dismissHandle on: #mouseMove send: #setDismissColor:with: to: self. So, I wonder about #maybeDismiss:with: and that leads me to -- maybeDismiss: evt with: dismissHandle ... target dismissViaHalo ... And thence to -- dismissViaHalo "The user has clicked in the delete halo-handle. This provides a hook in case some concomitant action should be taken, or if the paticular morph is not one which should be put in the trash can, for example." TrashCanMorph moveToTrash: self and on to -- moveToTrash: aMorph Preferences soundsEnabled ifTrue: [Preferences preserveTrash ifFalse: [self playSoundNamed: 'scratch'] ifTrue: [self playDeleteSound]]. ... leading either to -- playDeleteSound "TrashCanMorph playDeleteSound" | snd | Smalltalk at: #SampledSound ifPresent: [:sampledSound | snd _ sampledSound samples: self samplesForDelete samplingRate: 22050. snd play]. or -- playSoundNamed: soundName "Play the sound with the given name. Do nothing if this image lacks sound playing facilities." Smalltalk at: #SampledSound ifPresent: [:sampledSound | sampledSound playSoundNamed: soundName asString]. so I would think SampledSound a likely answer to your question. Cheers, Bob

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Re: Localization in code
by Richard A. O'Keefe 01 Oct '01

01 Oct '01

Jecel Assumpcao Jr <jecel(a)merlintec.com> wrote: Any reference for ILEX? http://cirrus.dai.ed.ac.uk:8000/ilex

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