Squeak-dev June 2003

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188 participants
973 discussions

About 3.6 alpha process: to break the less
by Stephane Ducasse 04 Jun '03

04 Jun '03

Hi We produced KCP change but we were modifying classes that are now removed from 3.6. So this leads to load errors. We could tediously discard the changes from the changesets but this would be a pity because we would introduce a lot of errors in external packages. Now I was thinking that we are doing too much in the same time. Cleaning in a closed world assumption is much easier than in presence of removal. So now that we are following this path, I think that the best way to continue would be to have a script loading all the packages that will be present in the 3.6 full image and that the cleaners works on this image. What will be absolutely important for the future is to have package (a class knowing which class and methods it contains), this way (except for class extensions made from one package to another one), we could make that each change related to a given package goes into the right package. Tell me what you think about that. Stef

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Re: About 3.6 alpha process: to break the less
by Daniel Vainsencher 04 Jun '03

04 Jun '03

diegogomezdeck(a)consultar.com wrote: > IMO, This is not the source of the problems. The source of the problems is > the extreme-minimalist approach that caught us. ... > We are trying to make the standard image smaller and modular but we have > not support at all to do that. The current version of Squeak (and I'm not > meaning the size of the image) allows the mess, so the mess will be there. ... > We trust that a smaller default image will solve our problems but, in fact, > we're creating more problems than then problems we're fixing. ... > So, my short answer is: If we want a modular image [*], let's implement > some modules mechanism before creating the pseudo-modules we're working > on. Probably we'll need also some type of namespacing support. > > [*] I'm not sure I want to pay the price to have a modular image. When I > work with ST-Dialects with packages/parcels/application/yourNameHere I feel > so constrained. The monolithic image can have problems, but the freedom it > gives is not present in more-declarative environments. Modules are supposed solutions to several problems (and sometimes only to subsets of these)- 1. Partitioning code so that one can reason about parts of it without worrying about the rest. Fixing bugs in a Morphic application, you should be able to say with certainty that this doesn't break the Morphic framework. AKA limiting dependencies. 2. Allow groups to weasel their way out of naming conflicts. AKA namespaces. If I have an Environment class that means a set of classes, and you have one that represents an eco-sphere, and we really want our applications to live in the same image. 3. Allowing deployment of bunches of code, according to a logical, fine grained partition, but in a way that allows the user to just choose the application, unawares of prerequisites. Henriks module system tried to solve all three, and was very complex, and I believe that anyone trying to solve all three at once will fail for the same reason. This is especially dumb because in the Squeak world, almost nobody is actually complaining about problem 2 interfering with their day to day life. Some people fantasize about how important it is, but we don't really see the problem in practice. Problem 3 is slowly drawing to a solution with SM. Problem 1 will be solved when we have an explicit representation for packages, and everybody is using it. PackageInfo is a partial solution, but it isn't being used by that many people, which shows that what we lack is not more infrastructure, but common ways of using what we have. A subproblem of 1, that is, detecting whether some piece of code is well partitioned, is somewhat helped by the use of MudPie, another example of existing (though new and experimental) infrastructure that people are free to use but dont. BTW, it's solution to 1 and the subproblem doesn't require a hierarchial module structure, or any extra declarations of dependencies, so you shouldn't feel anymore constrained by it than by plain Squeak. In fact, it changes nothing about the way Squeak works - it's just analysis, and you hook into it by writing one line SUnit tests. So IMO, the question isn't "will someone save us by providing a magical module system", the question is, are we making the best of what we have, and thinking how to extend it? Daniel

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Re: About 3.6 alpha process: to break the less
by Daniel Vainsencher 04 Jun '03

04 Jun '03

diegogomezdeck(a)consultar.com wrote: > This is not the worst part of the history. The worst part is: The work we > (mcp & kcp) are doing will vanish with the nexts updates. ? what makes you think that? because it will be unloaded into packages? the answers to that are simple - A. We're not erasing the software, we're separating it. If you modify future packages, this will make life easier for their maintainers. B. You're not responsible to maintain the other packages - you're responsible to simplify what is in the image, and preferably focus on the most commonly reused stuff, meaning the frameworks. And you should *help* with the damage control, being careful and public with incompatible changes, but you don't have to fix stuff in all other packages. Daniel

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need help for ActiveX widget
by Paul Weustink 04 Jun '03

04 Jun '03

Hello, At the educational sciences department of our university, we're developing a large software package for discovery learning called SimQuest (http://www.simquest.nl). This system is freeware and written in Smalltalk (Cincom VisualWorks 5i.3). A few days ago I saw Squeak for the first time on the internet and it really looks great!! Both Squeak and SimQuest allow the user to develop educational applications. As a developer of SimQuest I have a question that maybe some of the developers of Squeak might have an answer for: Did someone write a widget for VisualWorks to add an ActiveX control to an interface? I would like to add a webbrowser component to my interface (that supports flash etc), where this interface will be running stand-alone, so not inside another webbrowser. There is a tool that can generate such widgets (SmallCOM/X) but this is an expensive commercial package ($ 3000,-). Please send a copy of any reply to my email as well, since I'm not yet in the mailing list. Thanks in advance for any help on this! Paul Weustink wtk(a)rt.el.utwente.nl Educational Technology Faculty of Behavioral Sciences University of Twente The Netherlands

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RE: Wget and HTTPSocket
by Brent Vukmer 04 Jun '03

04 Jun '03

I'm getting "data was slow" in the Transcript. I'll try saving the retries for later. > -----Original Message----- > From: Ned Konz [mailto:ned@bike-nomad.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 2:17 PM > To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list > Subject: Re: Wget and HTTPSocket > > > On Tuesday 03 June 2003 10:45 am, Brent Vukmer wrote: > > My recent Squeak work has done a lot of downloading via > HTTP, hitting > > the swiki.gsug.org server. My impression is that HTTPSocket is not > > very robust for handling situations where it should retry a > request; I > > routinely find that loading about a hundred URLs is enough > to create > > an error within Squeak. > > What error? > > Are you getting "data was late" messages on the transcript? > > The HTTPSocket will try 3 times to wait for up to 5 seconds for a > response, then will return a default that's easy to test for. > > However, I'd prefer it to raise an Exception and let the application > determine a retry policy (and a timeout, for that matter). > > In your case, it would make more sense to not retry immediately, but > to take the potential retries and save them for later. > > -- > Ned Konz > http://bike-nomad.com > GPG key ID: BEEA7EFE > > >

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Fwd: Einladung Kolloquium17.6.2003
by Stephane Ducasse 04 Jun '03

04 Jun '03

www.iam.unibe.ch >> Das Informatikkolloquium im Sommersemester 2003 >> - eine Veranstaltung des IAM mit Unterstützung der Hasler Stiftung >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Einladung zum nächsten Vortrag: >> >> Dienstag, 17. Juni 2003, 17.30 Uhr in der Uni Engehalde, >> Engehaldenstrasse 8, 3012 Bern Hörsaal 001 (1.UG) >> >> Referent: >> Dr. Noury Bouraqadi >> Computer Science Lab, Ecole des Mines of Douai (France) >> >> Thema: >> Metaclass Composition in MetaclassTalk >> >> Abstract: >> >> Reflection is the ability of a system to reason and to act upon >> itself. A programming language is said to be reflective if it allows >> developers to alter its own semantics and the set of its own >> constructs. For this purpose, constructs of a reflective language and >> its evaluation mechanisms are ``reified''. That is, they are made >> explicit to allow developers handle them. In the context of object >> oriented languages, reification leads to representing such entities as >> full fledged objects available at run-time. For example, reification >> of methods and classes make them available as objects to developers. >> So, methods and classes can be handled (e.g. receive messages) >> likewise plain objects. >> >> Since every object is instance of some class, reified classes are >> instances of other classes named ``metaclasses''. Metaclasses are >> useful to define new class properties and hence make new kinds of >> classes. An example of a class property is having a sole instance. >> This property corresponds to the Singleton design pattern. Another >> example of class property is multiple inheritance. In a language which >> provides single inheritance, metaclasses can be used to build classes >> with multiple superclasses. Metaclasses allows defining a variety of >> class properties. And, of course, a single class can have different >> properties (e.g. singleton + multiple inheritance). Therefore, we need >> to somehow compose metaclasses defining these properties. >> >> In this talk, we focus on mixin-based inheritance and how it applies >> for metaclass composition. Mixin-based inheritance was introduced by >> Bracha and Cook as an alternative to both single and multiple >> inheritance. Contrary to single inheritance, mixin-based inheritance >> allows making some classes (named mixins) participate to different >> inheritance hierarchies. And contrary to multiple-inheritance, >> mixin-based inheritance avoids undesirable behavior resulting from >> automatic linearization. >> Experiments related to our work on mixins were done using a reflective >> extension of Smalltalk named MetaclassTalk >> (http://csl.ensm-douai.fr/MetaclassTalk). Besides allowing developers >> change program evaluation, MetaclassTalk also supports metaclass >> programming. We show how we implemented mixin-based inheritance using >> MetaclassTalk metaclasses, and how we took benefit from MetaclassTalk >> reflectivity to compose metaclasses using mixins. >> >> > >

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[Q] resizing a PlotMorph
by Chris Muller 04 Jun '03

04 Jun '03

Whenever I try to add a PlotMorph to another morph using a TableLayout and #shrinkWrap, resizing the PlotMorph exceeds the bounds of the parent morph. For example: RectangleMorph new layoutPolicy: TableLayout new; hResizing: #shrinkWrap; vResizing: #shrinkWrap; addMorph: PlotMorph new; addMorph: CurveMorph new; openInWorld Resizing the PlotMorph inside the RectangleMorph causes it to cover the CurveMorph and outside the bounds of the parent RectangleMorph. Am I doing something wrong? Thanks, Chris __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com

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Re: fonts and unicode
by Shalabh Raizada 04 Jun '03

04 Jun '03

Hi all, The ttf package in SqueakMap is not loading. I tried to install some TTF, some of it was for devanagiri(indian) languages and i got all garbage, even Arial Black was not good. As I have to work in local scripts i need help to get good output. Thanks, shalabh. _________________________________________________________________ Want free fuel? Get IOC Citibank card. http://server1.msn.co.in/msnleads/citibankcards/ioc.asp Drive your dreams!

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RE: Multi-select and delete example?
by Brent Vukmer 03 Jun '03

03 Jun '03

Thanks Chris and Ned. The Squeak list rocks. > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Muller [mailto:afunkyobject@yahoo.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 4:49 PM > To: Squeak List > Subject: RE: Multi-select and delete example? > > > Hi Brent, the Tracing Messages Browser utilizes an enhanced > PluggableListMorph that allows rapid, sweeping gestures of > the mouse for multi-select without dropping selections. You > can then delete those methods using the menu of > Command+x. > > It's on SqueakMap, I hope this helps. > > Regards, > Chris > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to > Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com > >

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RE: Multi-select and delete example?
by Chris Muller 03 Jun '03

03 Jun '03

Hi Brent, the Tracing Messages Browser utilizes an enhanced PluggableListMorph that allows rapid, sweeping gestures of the mouse for multi-select without dropping selections. You can then delete those methods using the menu of Command+x. It's on SqueakMap, I hope this helps. Regards, Chris __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com

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