Squeak-dev November 2006

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157 participants
223 discussions

Webteam report October, 2006
by karl 02 Nov '06

02 Nov '06

Webteam keeps working with great help from Ken Causey at BoxAdmin. Brad Fuller have almost finished a pier image for www.squeakfoundation.org, some issues have to be ironed out. I'm still WebTeam leader, and still waiting for a replacement ;-) Karl

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Google Docs/Spreadsheets API?
by Darius Clarke 01 Nov '06

01 Nov '06

Has anyone made a Google Docs/Spreadsheets API for Squeak or Smalltalk available to share? I know the .NET community has one. Cheers, Darius

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Re: I am standing by Juan's proposal, do you? (was Re: Removing Etoys, Morphic and other friends)
by mmille10＠comcast.net 01 Nov '06

01 Nov '06

The discussion about this has been a bit confusing, but not too much. If what I understand is correct, that the plan is to have a "full" image of Squeak that contains Morphic/eToys, which will be removable, or a "full" image + an additional dev. image w/o eToys, with the idea that an upgrade to Morphic will be in the works for the future, it sounds like a good interim solution to me. I vote "yes". Hopefully someday eToys will be reworked as well. ---Mark -------------- Original message -------------- From: goran(a)krampe.se > Hi all! > > Since it feels that we are getting more concrete here I decided to > rename the subject. Perhaps people join up in the discussion again. :) > > Juan Vuletich wrote: > > Hi Goran! > > > > goran(a)krampe.se escribi󺊦lt;BR>> > > Hi Juan and all! > > > > > > I just want to say I am 100% with you on all this. > > > > > Thanks. It's nice to know that. > > Though I am just one of "us" you know. :) But yes, it is nice to feel > that people agree - and as I said I am all with you for three major > reasons: > > 1. You are a doer. You have already proved that. > 2. You are committed to this. We don't have many people committed to > Morphic development (on this low level) these days and I value each and > every one highly. > 3. You have a plan. > > And my principle is that if someone is itching to improve something and > has the above 3 things, then there is not much to argue about - I say > go. :) > > > > Could you possibly (as you probably know Morphic/eToys better than most > > > of us) list the parts that we could "decide" about leaving in or ripping > > > out? Lex started a list, but he also included some things that I had not > > > thought were included (like ImageSegment for example). > > > > > To me eToys what you can find in the eToys package. That's why I put it > > there! > > :) > > > Going thru Lex's list. (Lex, I didn't answer to your post because I > > think the list should be built by the community, and I didn't want to > > sound authoritative on this!) > > - Tile based programming system. Yes. The central part of eToys. > > - Halos. No. Halos are key to Morphic. > > - Named morph search. No. I'd put this in 'MorphicExtras'. > > - Uniclasses. Yes. They were implemented in Squeak to support eToys. And > > they are not Smalltalky to me. However, 'make own subclass' is not > > eTtoys, and distinct from uniclasses to me. > > - SmartRefStream and ImageSegments. No! Why would they? > > - Projects and saving projects. No. > > - Paint tool. No. > > - Flaps. No. > > I think this list sounds perfect to me. > > > Anyway, I don't want to say what should be removed and what should not. > > But clearly in my reduced 3.7 image, I removed lots of stuff besides eToys. > > Let me repeat: To me eToys what it is in the eToys package. > > > I think it would be a nice way forward in this discussion. > > > > > > regards, G? > > > > > > PS. This subject came up around an OOPSLA hacking table with Dan present > > > - he also remarked that Morphic is indeed quite small - if you consider > > > only Morphic itself. > > :) > > > But we did not discuss the issue at any great > > > length. Also Doug applied your recipe to have a look at the result etc. > > > > > Doug, I'd like to know what were your impressions on this! > > > We never got around to any personal conclusions, though. But I for one > > > applaud and greatly appreciate your diligence in this matter and I think > > > it would be GREAT to have a small "isolated" clean Morphic in Squeak > > > that is maintained and proven. And I am probably not alone in that. > > > > > > > > > > Well, I hope you're interested in my Morphic 3.0 project then. It is my > > vision for morphic improvement. Check www.jvuletich.org ! > > I am. Let me put this interest in some perspective btw: > > 1. Morphic is proven to work. But seems to be in a mess and thus is > brittle and also not maintained much because people can't get a grip and > are also appalled about lots of the stuff that is in there today (eToys > related I think). So it is sitting still today. Btw, this is MY primary > objective behind getting eToys out - because I want a more attractive > Morphic that then might get maintained instead of just sit there. > > 2. Tweak came along and people interested in these things probably > decided to hang around and wait to see if Tweak would end up replacing > Morphic in "official Squeak". Now it seems to not go that route, at > least not in a hurry. I love the fact that we have Tweak and new ideas > etc, but perhaps it is time to grab what we have and make the best of it > instead of waiting for Tweak. > > So... Juan stepping up and offering his time to produce a clean, > maintainable and rejuvenated Morphic is IMHO Right On Cue. > > I hope that people raise their voices and give him their support. > I then hope that the next release team (3 people that we still do not > know who they are) considers giving Juan a slot in 3.10 for this > rejuvenation, and I also hope that the board show their support in this. > And I hope that Juan is willing to take on the Steward role for Morphic > together with a few more brave souls with an interest in Morphic (there > are a few I think). I bet perhaps even Dan Ingalls could be interested, > but he might be too busy at work. > > > Cheers, > > Juan Vuletich > > regards, G? >

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MPEG-4 support?
by Andreas Raab 01 Nov '06

01 Nov '06

Hi - Brief question: If one would want to integrate MPEG-4 in Croquet/Squeak what would good options look like? Any ideas about available libraries, pain of interfacing those, etc? In the best of all worlds an open source solution would of course be preferable but it would be useful to know and evaluate other alternatives, too. Cheers, - Andreas

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Binding support for ScriptManager available
by Torsten Bergmann 01 Nov '06

01 Nov '06

Hi, thanks to Keith Hodges ScriptManager now also comes with binding support. The lates version is available at: http://www.squeaksource.com/DeveloperWorkspace/ScriptManager-tbn.5.mcz It is automatically included into the dev-image building process so it will be available in the next prepared dev-image. But you can also build a fresh dev-image by yourself: - open a new Squeak3.9g-7061 - open the Monticello Browser and add "http://www.squeaksource.com/ImageForDevelopers" as a new HTTP repository. - Load the latest "ImageForDevelopers-dc.43.mcz" from there and follow the instructions in the workspace Thanks for the changes, Keith and keep on talking small Bye Torsten Keith Hodges wrote > Torsten, > > I have messed with ScriptManager in order that scripts support > undeclared variables in order to reflect the behaviour of workspaces. > > Are you the person to pass this code to in order to feed it back into > the developer image? > > Keith -- GMX DSL-Flatrate 0,- Euro* - Überall, wo DSL verfügbar ist! NEU: Jetzt bis zu 16.000 kBit/s! http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl

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About VM version
by Giuseppe Luigi Punzi 01 Nov '06

01 Nov '06

Hi all. One question. Why, on http://www.squeakvm.org/, Unix has a 3.9 VM and last Windows is 3.7? See you. -- Giuseppe Luigi Punzi Linux User: #370919 Skype: glpunzi http://blog.lordzealon.com

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eToys loading
by Pavel Krivanek 01 Nov '06

01 Nov '06

Hi all, I'm pretty sure that if we will be able to prepare an image without eToys, we will be also able to load it back. We can do it with whole Morphic and I don't see fundamental difference. I offer my experiences in this area. -- Pavel

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Cleaning and removing Etoys
by Edgar J. De Cleene 01 Nov '06

01 Nov '06

Juan, fellow Squeakers. I'm so fool what think could reload Etoys. But I don't wish do things what don't have consensus. So I send small ideas for cleaning/ changing actual Morphic 2.0 what could end in unloading/loading Etoys. This time I wish move StickySketchMorph in category: 'EToys-Scripting Support' to a new category 'MorphicExtras-Etoy-Compatible' And I send to morphic list too, just to see who is in and ready to work Edgar __________________________________________________ Correo Yahoo! Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam �gratis! �Abr� tu cuenta ya! - http://correo.yahoo.com.ar

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Re: I am standing by Juan's proposal, do you?
by Juan Vuletich 01 Nov '06

01 Nov '06

Hi Folks, I apologize for not answering each message, but I can't get mail (problems @dc.uba.ar). So, if anybody sent me personal mail today, most likely I lost it. Please resend to this adress. First of all, Goran, thank you for your support. I don't think this needs much further discussion. But I'd like to know the board's opinion (or at least, the board member's one). To Ron, you asked 'A question for Juan, can your Morphic 3.0 advancements be applied to Tweak?'. I don't know. You also said 'I would like to see Juan and other Squeak developers work towards getting Tweak ready and include it in Squeak'. Do you think it is of any use each one of us to start saying what we would like the others to work on? Come on! Nobody gets paid here. Each one of us works on whatever we want! To *Jimmie, wrt '*and I would love to see some pre-built images which target certain user groups, eToys, business apps, web server, etc. I believe Spoon, Pavel & Juan, offer hope for such a future'. I agree with you. Thanks. To Bill, I agree that floats and general transformations are not the best solution for everything. Your point about PDAs is specially valid. Currently Morphic 3.0 is not a reasonable alternative to replace Morphic 2.0. But maybe some day. Wrt to 'killing the pixel'. The pixel is dying anyway. Postcript, pdf, display postcript, aqua, vista, see where the path goes? To Francisco, Interesting experiment! Cheers, Juan Vuletich

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Google Crawls Into Source-Code Search
by Klaus D. Witzel 01 Nov '06

01 Nov '06

Have a look at - http://www.google.com/codesearch?q=lang:smalltalk+continuation and enjoy Open Source! /Klaus

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