Squeak-dev April 2006

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177 participants
262 discussions

[ANN] HTML and CSS Parser on SqueakSource
by David Faught 19 May '06

19 May '06

Todd Blanchard wrote: >I've released the underlying technology behind http://www.badpage.info and >placed it on squeaksource. > >http://www.squeaksource.com/htmlcssparser When I tried to load HTML-tb.28.mcz into a Squeak 3.8 full image, I get the warning: This package depends on the following classes: WAScriptLibrary You must resolve these dependencies before you will be able to load these definitions: HtmlJSLint HtmlJSLint>>script Where do I find WAScriptLibrary to resolve this? Or is that really necessary?

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Sake = Rake for Smalltalk?
by stéphane ducasse 17 May '06

17 May '06

hi all I wanted to know if one of you was working on something similar than rake in ruby: a makefile/ant like framework. Using blocks :) so it seems better. Stef

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How does a newbie get past the feeling thay he is trying to understand an elephant whilst looking through a keyhole?
by Stephen Davies 16 May '06

16 May '06

Hi, I'm trying to get familiar with Squeak. I used Smalltalk/V way back, have and read and understand the Smalltalk 80 book, so it's not completely new to me.... But Squeak is so much bigger. I'm really struggling to get an overall sense of the beast - I can't see the wood for the trees and for me, at least, the environment seems to contribute to that because of the method-by-method interface to the code seems to make it harder to get the big picture. Methods are presented in alphabetical order, without much clue as to how they relate. Similarly for classes. Are there any pointers/suggestions? I feel like I'm missing some tool I don't know about. It's great that you can see everything, but understanding for me would be aided with some sort of "gradual revelation"; a way to replace all the details of a class or bunch of classes with conceptual documentation - showing in a screen or two the overall story of that class's purpose and place in the system. And a way to dip under that to the implementation as needed. Any comments or suggestions for me? Thanks, Steve Davies

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Re: Fraction equality and Float infinity problem
by nicolas cellier 13 May '06

13 May '06

Thanks Trygve and Andres, I also agree that comparing float is a bad practice. It is even worse outside squeak because of intel registers extra bits for example (result will depend on use of registry or not and hence on compiler optimization and neighbour code). The question should (2 = 2.0) and (2.0 = 2.0) is interesting... In my opinion, there are cases when float comparison is usefull: precondition to guard against an exception (zero divide or whatever). First solution i was proposing is to continue to answer true to that, since it can be valid as long as no inexact arithmetic took place (depends how we made the 2.0, but the conversion from string is OK). I even happened to use float arithmetic once just to have cheap integer arithmetic on 53bits (OK, shame on me, but it works). Hence we can modify = so as to answer true only in exact arithmetic sense ( (1/2)=0.5 but (1/10)~=0.1 ). Concerning Set and hash code, we can make it working accordingly, using Float asTrueFraction. But there is a performance penalty (factor 100 on hash before optimization). I am not totally opposed to more radical solution you seem suggesting: (2 = 2.0) never answer true. In this case, we can still have efficient hash for comparing (2.0=2.0), and do not have to bother with Integer and Fraction. There are some cases when i would like such a behavior: For example, i want to use compiler to repeatedly evaluate an automatically generated mathematical formula, but i face the too many literals byte code limit. I can reduce number of literals by eliminating double entries, and use a Set for that. Here, i do not want literal #(2.0) being replaced with #(2), and in this case i would prefer 2~=2.0... (Yes, i can have array literals in my formula due to matrix). The only penalty of second solution is to break all bad-practice code... It is always possible to force a conversion toward exact or inexact arithmetic. But people can have programmed with automatic conversion in mind... For example, protect against zero divide with a~=0... (yes a isZero would be better in this case). Is there a lot such code in Squeak ? Hard to say... We must inquire that and ask other squeakers opinion. It is not a thin change... Nicolas Le Mercredi 29 Mars 2006 08:13, Trygve Reenskaug a écrit : > I wholeheartedly agree. We have used tolerance tests for floats since 1962 > because equality tests are meaningless. = for floats should give error. > > Cheers > --Trygve > > At 06:01 29.03.2006, Andres wrote: > >Hello ncellier, > > > >Tuesday, March 28, 2006, 7:25:46 AM, you wrote: > > > >nic> [number hashing is broken] > >nic> What is your opinion ? > > > >IMHO... sometimes it may be convenient to have 2 = 2.0, but since they > >represent different intentions, I would not expect that to happen. > >Why should a perfectly specified integer be equal to, possibly, the > >result of carrying calculations without infinite precision? What > >would it mean if theGreatDoublePrecisionResult = 2? Wouldn't it be > >more interesting (and precise) to ask laysWithin: epsilon from: 2? > > > >In other words, comparing constants makes it look much simpler than > >what it really is. Reading something like anInteger = 2.0 would be, > >from my point of view, highly questionable because it is an assertion > >that an approximation has an *exact* value. Nonsense. > > > > >From a more pragmatic point of view, there is also the issue of 2 = > > > >2.0, but things like > > > > (1 bitShift: 1000) - 1 > > > >cannot be equal to any floating point number supported by common > >hardware. Thus, exploiting anInteger = aFloat is intention obscuring > >by definition since it may or may not work depending on the integer. > >Again, highly questionable. > > > >In short: floating point numbers *may* be equal to integers, but the > >behavior of #= cannot be determined a priori. Since the behavior of > >#= does not imply a relationship of equivalence, the behavior of #hash > >is inconsequential. > > > >Adding integers and floats to a set gets messed up. So we have two > >options... a) don't do it because it is intention obscuring... or b) > >make integers never be equal to floating point numbers. > > > >Same deal with fractions and the like. > > > >-- > >Best regards, > > Andres mailto:sqrmax@optonline.net -------------------------------------------------------

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Looking for good souls
by stephane ducasse 10 May '06

10 May '06

Hi all I would like to have a list for newbies: squeak-starters because (I see it now with my students) newbies are really afraid to post, experience with python mailing-list doing the same are a success so we should learn. Now I would like to have a couple of good souls to help me answering the questions on this squeak-starters mailing-list. So if we are 4 or 5 we win! Stef

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[ann][vm][unix] 3.9-4
by Ian Piumarta 05 May '06

05 May '06

Folks, Source code, pre-loaded VMM image, precompiled Linux/386 and Darwin/ PPC binaries available. http://squeakvm.org/unix/ Enjoy, Ian [3.8 was never promoted to stable, so the release notes describe the major...] Changes since 3.7-7: VM: The VM is now fully compatible with Croquet and will run both Squeak and Croquet images. Attribute 1006 answers a string describing the VM build environment. VM drivers: vm-display-X11 no longer generates Squeak KeyUp events for X KeyRelease events that came from autorepeat. Plugins: Parts of aio and sqUnixSocket modified to support asynchronous notification of i/o, and a new entry point (aioSleep) added for the benefit of the Mac VM. (In some cases it's trivial to demonstrate a factor of 2000 improvement in socket throughput.) SO_REUSEPORT has been enabled for any architectures that support it. At the time of writing Darwin does but Linux does not. UUID plugin now supported and bundled. OSProcess and XDisplayControl plugins updated from Dave Lewis's distributions and bundled. CroquetPlugin and FloatMathPlugin from Andreas are now bundled for full Croquet compatibility. Security plugin now obeys SQUEAK_USERDIR if set.

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headless squeak for nslu2?
by Brian Zhou 02 May '06

02 May '06

Hi all squeakers, I've ported quite a few languages to the nslu2 optware (see http://nslu2-linux.org for detail). The only major language not running on the "slug" is Smalltalk. Any idea where to start to get a headless squeak running on the slug? I vaguely remember there is some package allow one to use web browser as a Smalltalk browser. Combined with a headless image, that would be a fun environment to experiment. Any pointer would be greatly appreciated. -Brian Zhou http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Profiles/BrianZhou

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Squeak Awk Rumor
by SmallSqueak 02 May '06

02 May '06

Dear Squeaker, Does any one know where is Squeak Awk available for download? It is rumored Squeak Awk will be used to run the robots in the Sun SPOT project (NASA is going to land the robots on the sun to count the spots?). Let's hope some Squeak robotics expert will confirm or deny this rumor. Oh, BTW, that Squeak Awk is named Squawk and it's a VM. Cheers, SmallSqueak

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[ANN] 3.9a7026
by Marcus Denker 02 May '06

02 May '06

Hi, New 39a7026 is up (Harvesting bone by Stef). Beta is coming closer... http://ftp.squeak.org/3.9/Squeak3.9a-7026.zip ChangeLog ========== Change Set: LongDelayFixes Date: 4 October 2005 Author: tim(a)rowledge.org See Mantis bug 1840 and 854. This changeset allows a too-long Delay to fail the relevant primitive and schedules a fake delay to keep the timer system going. I claim this is preferable to disallowing long delays. Also slightly improves handling of rollover and the treatment of multiple delays with the same resumption time" --------------------------------- 3515 - Parser fails in #defineClass: becasue Metaclass doest not understand #category (DF) --------------------------------- 003513: [ENH] ToolBuilderBldEnh-KR (korakurider) ToolBuilder>>(class)build: enable default builder to build objects without opening. It's useful for building authoring prototypes for ToolBuilder-based tools in parts bin. --------------------------------- 0003510: In 3.9a requesting a language change leads to infinite generation of testRunners (korakurider) --------------------------------- 0003504: Float asInteger conversion is inexact... (nicolas cellier)

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[ANN] New beginners squeak mailing-list
by stéphane ducasse 02 May '06

02 May '06

Hi all beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org is ready. If you have problem with the english welcome message please send me something better or more english :) http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo Stef

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