Squeak-dev April 2006

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177 participants
262 discussions

Another Float problem
by nicolas cellier 26 Apr '06

26 Apr '06

(10 raisedTo: 16) asFloat asTrueFraction is correct (10 raisedTo: 16) asFloat asInteger answers incorrectly 999999999999999 See http://bugs.impara.de/view.php?id=3504 with test and patch.

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Re: Looking for good souls
by Dean_Swan＠Mitel.COM 26 Apr '06

26 Apr '06

I like this idea (for whatever my opinion may be worth). -Dean Sean McGrath <sean(a)manybits.net> Sent by: squeak-dev-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org 04/25/2006 04:05 PM Please respond to The general-purpose Squeak developers list To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> cc: Subject: Re: Looking for good souls goran(a)krampe.se wrote: [...] > I also guess it will not in practice turn out harmful. Just note that > one scenario (however unplausible) is that squeak-dev gets "weaker" in > the sense that it misses out on all those > Simple-And-Obvious-Things-That-We-Oldtimers-Don't-See-Anymore. Numerous > frutiful discussions has started out with one of those "Sorry, but I > just don't get it..."-questions from a complete beginner. Quoting myself from http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2006-April/102982.ht… Suppose a squeak-help list exists and any posts to it were copied to squeak-dev with [help] prefixed to the subject, and any replies from squeak-dev to [help] subjects were copied to squeak-help. The dev list sees the help traffic, can provide assistance, and gain "non-expert" perspective on the state of Squeak. The help seekers are spared the "intimidating" traffic. The [help] tags provide a filter handle for those that want one. Possible? Desirable? ... Sean McGrath

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unix 3.9-6
by Ian Piumarta 25 Apr '06

25 Apr '06

Folks, Cesare Marilungo's slowness with Balloon3D turned out to be a missing Squeak3D (B3DEnginePlugin). It's part of the Balloon3D package rather than VMM. I've loaded B3D, rerun VMM, rebuilt everything from scratch and called it 3.9-6 (it's in the usual place). Relative to 3.9-4: - CPU usage when idle should no longer linger at 100% - Squeak3D plugin is bundled - B3D hardware acceleration has been verified working - UUIDPlugin is external and the VM should run even if libuuid.so is unwilling. Sorry about the hiccups. Have fun, Ian

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Technical aspects of belonging to squeak list.s ( Re: Looking for good souls )
by Peace Jerome 25 Apr '06

25 Apr '06

Someone in the "Looking for good souls" thread raised the dread of some beginner joining this list for information then getting hundreds of emails a day that they didn't want. The amount of mail that arrives in my mail box from being a member of this list is well under my control. I got a mailbox just for the purpose of contributing to this list. (Getting my first and last name uncorrectably into the wrong places as you will notice). By then I was well aware that the easiest way to follow the list for me was just reading the archive. I got (and deleted) just the digest. And still followed everything the old way by browsing the archive. The difference was now I could post and contact others individually. Recently I found out that I could even eliminate the digests by going to my squeakdev profile and just asking for them not to be delivered. That works fine. So while a beginner or newbie WILL be swamped with mail until he learns that trick, surely sooner rather than later a good kind soul will point this out to him or her. And if they figure it out for themselves. Well I want somebody that clever reading my posts. Maybe they have some ideas that can help. Yours in service, --Jerome Peace __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

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RE: Board communication
by Peter Crowther 25 Apr '06

25 Apr '06

> From: Craig Latta > Hi Peter-- Thanks for the response, Craig. [Reasoned rebuttal of my points elided in the interests of brevity] > Yes, I think you are wrong. :) Thanks for the view from the inside on those. Sounds like there's plenty in the pipeline, and I await developments with interest! Meanwhile, unless anyone wants to wake the dormant elections team and pass on some work, I'll pipe down re communication and governance issues. Much to Chris' (and others') relief, I suspect. - Peter

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[ANN] Exupery video from Brussels!
by goran＠krampe.se 25 Apr '06

25 Apr '06

Hi all! As promised: http://goran.krampe.se/blog/Squeak/ExuperyTalk2006.rdoc regards, Göran

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Smalltalk Contract Opportunity - Cleveland, OH
by Ian Schoen 25 Apr '06

25 Apr '06

I have Smalltalk contracts in Cleveland, OH. Client requires that you be onsite. They will not allow remote work. Visual Age Smalltalk, ENVY, Java environment. If interested, send your resume and let me know the most competitive hourly rate you can offer. We have a contractor who has been there 1.5 years. Long term potential, and potential for permanent after 6-12 months, if you are interested. Or you can remain a contractor. Thanks! Ian Schoen Sr. Account Executive EIS, Inc. 440-918-0140 phone 440-796-8305 cell 440-918-0148 fax ian(a)gotoEISinc.com www.gotoEISinc.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you are strictly prohibited from printing, storing, disseminating, distributing or copying this communication. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank You, Exodus Integrity Services, Inc

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[Traits] Namespaces(environments?), SystemChangeNotifier, ...
by Klaus D. Witzel 25 Apr '06

25 Apr '06

List, for a new project we plan to create a namespace which can and will have names clashing with existing global names like Object[tm] and Process[tm]. All behavior will be specified in form of Traits (for the immediate future only classTraits). We've looked around in the Traits implementation [3.9a] and found a good namespace separation example, [self environment organization], but there also is [SystemChangeNotifier uniqueInstance] which seems to know nothing about possible name clashes. What is the status, are the plans for having 100%[tm] separated namespaces? Google found - http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2004-December/085761… was there anything else we should take care of? The new name space we have in mind derives from ontologies and we don't want to force users of an ontology namespace to prefix or suffix any names/identifiers. And while we are at it, how should an object (say, a Class) use objects from another namespace (say, a Traits), and what about namespace separation in #definitionST80. But perhaps there are other and/or better ideas on how to separate namespaces in Squeak, suggestions and/or experience, all appreciated. /Klaus P.S. Of course we already have some ideas (and working code examples) on how to address these issues but would naturally like to hear voices from the community.

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Numerics question: reading floating point constants
by Andreas Raab 25 Apr '06

25 Apr '06

Hi Folks, This post is one for the numerics fraction. I was just in the process of transcribing some interesting numerical code from C to Squeak while I was running into an issue with floating point constants. The code that I have has constants like here: pio2_2 = 6.07710050630396597660e-11, /* 0x3DD0B461, 0x1A600000 */ but naively transcribing this into, e.g., pio22 := 6.07710050630396597660e-11. turned out to get some of the expected results wrong. Why? Because the bit pattern is different, e.g., what we get is this: 6.07710050630396597660e-11 hex => '3DD0B4611A5FFFFF' Notice how the last hex digits are different. My question here is the following: While I can understand why *printing* might give different results based on the algorithm chosen (e.g., what amount of error do we allow when printing floating point numbers etc) is it to be expected that *reading* has similar properties? In particular considering that, e.g., (607710050630396597660 * 1.0e-31) hex => '3DD0B4611A600000' gives the "correct" bit pattern makes me think that there might be something broken in our way of reading floating point numbers. Obviously, in a case like mine the best way to work around this problem is to construct the floats from the bit patterns directly but I can't stop but wonder what the impact of a subtle bug like this might be on code which does *not* include the hex denotations for the relevant bit patterns. So. Is this a bug? Cheers, - Andreas

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Re: Numerics question: reading floating point constants
by nicolas cellier 25 Apr '06

25 Apr '06

Le Dimanche 09 Avril 2006 18:23, stéphane ducasse a écrit : > Do you know a good book or lectures on the problems related to number > representation in our nice > computers? > > Stef > Some more links: function doing the conversion in C is strtod. glib implementation use mulitple precision integer arithmetic (mp library). Google: strtod source documentation http://www.jhauser.us/arithmetic/SoftFloat.html This guy has also a TestFloat program written in C for testing conversions Maybe we can borrow some tests and port in SUnit Google: Sun Microsystems' Numerical Computation Guide http://docs.sun.com/source/806-3568/ Good doc i learned with is available on the net... Google: IEEE 754 standard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_754 Sort introduction. Following the links you will find the two above... I started programming algorithm M, R and Bellerophon from tony's ref. But it does not handle denormalized (gradual underflow) nor possible overflow (Infinity). Deserve some more work... It does involve LargeInteger arithmetic anyway because of 52+1 bit significand... (Bellerophon use 64 bits). But performance seem not degraded vs current implementation (i do not test parsing so far, only the conversion part). Nicolas

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