Hi Craig,
I'm a real fan of Spoon. I really hope it will be the foundation of Squeak soon.
I feel the same as you say, WRT Morphic 3. And I'm doing as you.
However, you are a member of the Board. Doesn't this help you understand better the future of Squeak? Doesn't this allow you to decide about it? If you are in trouble knowing about the future of Spoon and Squeak, what's left to people like me with Morphic 3?
Cheers, Juan Vuletich
Craig Latta escribió:
Hi Avi and everyone--
There were two principles I was following. The first was that, occasionally, a system requires important fundamental changes to remain vital. I refer to previously-expressed concepts of "blue plane" or "burn the disk packs" thinking. (I hesitate to use those particular phrases, because I think much of their power in this community derives from nostaliga. I do think, however, that they truly were valid ideas.) I came to believe that the Squeak community was particularly receptive to these ideas, not just [to] the people espousing them or the funding they represented.
The second principle was that discussion of a shared vision could ameliorate the lack of a short-term gain, and even hasten the implementation of the vision by attracting volunteers. There was a time in the Squeak community, it seemed to me, when we could discuss the merits of an idea before the implementation was finished. I found it useful, and inspiring. This is why I have been writing progress reports for Spoon and asking for feedback.
Aha. My personal observation has been that this principle does not hold. One piece of evidence I have is the various version control systems I have worked on for Squeak. The current version of Monticello arose through a series of very incremental and (in retrospect) "unnecessary" early versions (including "DVS" before it was called "Monticello"), but each of which was released as a working and useful artifact without any prior discussion.
For Monticello 2, on the other hand, we've released plenty of information, tried to open discussion many times, asked for volunteers at several points, but never released something that people could actually use for their daily work. Result: apart from Damien who recently got some funding to work on it, we've had no response whatsoever. This despite the fact that MC2 is a much better and more ambitious design than any of the prior versions of MC.
I've seen similar patterns with Seaside versions over the years: discussions about the future go precisely nowhere. Ditto experimental branches for people to play with. But make a deep change that still lets people get their work done and nobody blinks.
Okay, but if the second principle doesn't hold, then I don't seehow the first one can have any actual significance in this community. To use Koestler's "bisociation" metaphor[1] yet again, it seems that where I want to go is simply not reachable through any path we're collectively willing to take.
So, it seems I must go there myself (with those few others who cantake some time away from getting work done, or who can somehow rationalize the effort itself as getting work done :). Only then, if the result is practical for use by everyone else, should I ask for consideration here. I can accept that, although I find it disappointing and surprising given my early experiences with the community. But it's still not clear to me what the community would consider "practical", despite a few attempts some have made to elaborate (I appreciate the attempts anyway).
In the absence of meaningful planning by the Squeak community onwhether, when, and how to use Spoon, those working on it[2] can only leave those decisions to others. Oh, and I suppose those with funding can feel free to speak up at any time. :)
In short (too late! ;), I won't press this further, you all knowwhere to find Spoon info if you want it[3]. I'll keep helping in other ways. Thanks for reading.
-C
[1] ...the "blue/pink planes" stuff, e.g. as mentioned by Kay from 17:25 onward in http://tinyurl.com/ok5df (video.google.com).
[2] ...it's not just me, although I am coordinating it.
-- Craig Latta improvisational musical informaticist www.netjam.org Smalltalkers do: [:it | All with: Class, (And love: it)]