Kick ass web frameworks for whom, the elite? the premadonnas?
Sadly, right now, those who are willing to put forth the effort to learn it. I'm not saying that's not a problem, only that it's a community problem, not necessarily the core developers problem.
What happened to smalltalk being an environment that is so easy a child could do it, making things accessible as part of the culture?
I don't think it ever was that, despite its attempts to be.
I am not trying to make anyone feel bad, it is a cultural thing I was trying to highlight. We have no problem promoting a Testing/Test First culture, why not promote the documentation aspect?
If you look in the seaside archives I said it back towards Seaside version 1.0 and 1.1 back in the days before seaside had any credibility. If seaside had had some documentation back then perhaps there would not even be a rails today. Regrettably nothing much has changed, until recently. (i.e. Lukas knows better :-) )
Zope had a book, and as a result zope runs the intranet at my previous company. The actual under the hood code in zope was horrendous, but it has/had a book.
PHP has a book, and what a book it is, I saw a printout of the manual once, the sheer size of it scared me. But it has a book, and the market share speaks for itself. Sure documentation is not the only factor but it is a factor.
Keith
I don't disagree, a book would be great. More than anything, Seaside needs documentation, marketing, and a larger community to enable those things, but we don't need to piss of the only people actually doing any work. Philippe's comments seemed to indicate he was rather annoyed. I was just reminding him that we appreciate the effort they put forth, despite any bitching they may feel coming their way.
Ramon Leon http://onsmalltalk.com