On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Igor Stasenko siguctua@gmail.com wrote:
The main reason, which prevents squeak to use as embedded solution is a structure of VM.
- there are many points when it assuming that it runs standalone
- the main interpret() function is an endless loop and not reentrant,
which makes it hard to interoperate with host process , like Lua does. recent updates added a callbacks, so they can be used as a kind of workaround to solve that issue.
I either solved these issues or found they were non-issues in the context of VisualWorks in 1997/98 and made it function as a Web browser plugin. I used my threaded FFI that allows different threads to call-in and out of the VM, so that the Smalltalk image was fully active all the time even when the browser was not calling into it. The VM was loadable as a DLL and was supplied with an image file (which can be embedded as data, e.g. in a Windows exe's resources) in an init call which returns once the image as loaded. The entry-points in the DLL can then be called from code that has loaded the DLL. Inside these entry-points are rendezvous-style call-backs that the single-threaded Vm responds to.
I think (ok, know) the issue is not the image but the lack of a threaded FFI.
For reference, the external doc to my thrteaded interconnect is at http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/CincomSmalltalkWiki/VisualWorks+THAPI I have internal doc somewhere which belongs to Cincom so if anyone is interested I'll ask Cincom for permission to publish it and if they say yes then I'll make it available, e.g. on my web site.
2009/2/6 Steve Wart steve.wart@gmail.com:
That's an interesting idea. Quite a lot of the momentum in Python, Lua, ECMAScript, etc. come from their embedded-ness.
Smalltalk was built embedded in an OS that it was never entirely
comfortable
with, although there have been many attempts at scripting Smalltalk from other programs, Seaside being the most notable success.
I suggest that this ideal already exists. The benefits come from specific implementations.
It would be interesting to see a Croquet variant with a modern game
engine.
Smalltalk and C++ should be able to play well together.
Steve
On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 8:53 AM, askoh askoh@askoh.com wrote:
I think it is good you dare to speak your mind. I also think that the Squeak community can take that. Keep your ideas coming.
I would like Squeak to be callable from other programs so that it can be used as plugins.
Aik-Siong Koh
Giuseppe Luigi Punzi Ruiz wrote:
We have elections soon.
I'ts time to think about the project. What we search? What new developers search?
I think, probably, Squeak, needs a refactoring on the ideas behind.
The
people thath wants etoys, use etoys image. Croquet uses his own image. Now, at the moment (2009), I'm 90% sure, the people thath go to squeak.org, and get the latest Squeak, now, are developers searching
a
good smalltalk (something similar to VW but opensource I means) to use in their projects, not the use of Squeak as multimedia, or something similar. I know this for all spanish people ask me about Squeak, or developers "going out the list" searching Pharo, an approach to the things I say.
I like the idea about a console squeak (like GST) with the objects living in memory, but not dependent of the "World", launching the
actual
Squeak World as an object (I don't know if is the actual behaviour, I only dream) if you want, or launching something like VW (or Dolphin) working over TK or GTK or WxWidgets or technologys like XUL instead.....I like the idea of an UI Painter....I like the idea of all Squeak tools running over web too..well, this idea don't like it very much :)..but I don't have the skills for all of this, for this I offer the ideas. But most important, is the community has vote for this things. The community needs to stay informed about the movements. I think, this, is the right direction.
I don't know what you all think, but IMHO, it's the moment to get a
new
Squeak 4 from zero, trying to preserve the core classes, with new
ideas
and ambitions.
I don't like very much the idea about all list hating me, but, after this mail, I know you hate me :P
P.D.: Yes, probably, I'm crazy too.
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-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.