Ouch! I have a lot of artistic work which is developed in Squeak on Linux -- currently only up to 4.3 (which is working fine for me, so I haven't upgraded). I'm trying to run one of my 4.3 images on a Raspberry Pi 3B+ which is at Raspbian 10 (buster), and with the current armv6 squeak VM, getting the message
This interpreter (vers. 6521) cannot read image file (vers. 6504).
Suggestions?
-Thanks in advance, Jim
On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 07:07:25AM -0500, Jim Rosenberg wrote:
Ouch! I have a lot of artistic work which is developed in Squeak on Linux -- currently only up to 4.3 (which is working fine for me, so I haven't upgraded). I'm trying to run one of my 4.3 images on a Raspberry Pi 3B+ which is at Raspbian 10 (buster), and with the current armv6 squeak VM, getting the message
This interpreter (vers. 6521) cannot read image file (vers. 6504).
Suggestions?
-Thanks in advance, Jim
You will need to use a "classic" VM to run this image, because the newer VMs in use today are not able to run a Squeak 4.3 image.
You can find a precompiled VM for ARM v61 at http://squeakvm.org/unix/ which may work, although it is out of date so I am not sure if it will run on your Pi.
If you do not mind installing development tools on your Raspberry Pi, then the best thing to do is compile the VM yourself. Instructions for doing this are at http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6354
If you have any difficulty building your VM, please ask for help. And if it works without problems, please report back so we know.
Thanks, Dave
Hmph. In the hope of being helpful here I fired off a quick compile of a stack/v3 VM on my Pi (that image is non-spur, and we never did a v3/cog VM because it requires a set of specific instructions to occupy a number of bytes that is a prime number and smells of purple locknuts) BUT it won't actually build.
HOWEVER - you already have a decently suitable squeakvm installed on your Pi, left over from waaaay back when we weren't 100% sure of the newer Scratch system. So, in a terminal, try
squeak.old my.image &
and see if it works. On my Pi4 it starts up a vanilla 4.3 image straight away.
tim -- tim Rowledge; tim@rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim "Bother" said Piglet, as Pooh smeared him in honey.
Hi Tim, Looking at recent build https://travis-ci.com/github/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm/builds/213372081 the ARMV6 squeak.stack.v3 build passed https://travis-ci.com/github/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm/jobs/472299216 So it should be possible to build... Does the latest bintray work? https://bintray.com/opensmalltalk/vm/download_file?file_path=squeak.stack.v3...
Le mar. 19 janv. 2021 à 00:34, tim Rowledge tim@rowledge.org a écrit :
Hmph. In the hope of being helpful here I fired off a quick compile of a stack/v3 VM on my Pi (that image is non-spur, and we never did a v3/cog VM because it requires a set of specific instructions to occupy a number of bytes that is a prime number and smells of purple locknuts) BUT it won't actually build.
HOWEVER - you already have a decently suitable squeakvm installed on your Pi, left over from waaaay back when we weren't 100% sure of the newer Scratch system. So, in a terminal, try
squeak.old my.image &
and see if it works. On my Pi4 it starts up a vanilla 4.3 image straight away.
tim
tim Rowledge; tim@rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim "Bother" said Piglet, as Pooh smeared him in honey.
On 2021-01-18, at 3:51 PM, Nicolas Cellier nicolas.cellier.aka.nice@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Tim, Looking at recent build https://travis-ci.com/github/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm/builds/213372081 the ARMV6 squeak.stack.v3 build passed https://travis-ci.com/github/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm/jobs/472299216 So it should be possible to build... Does the latest bintray work? https://bintray.com/opensmalltalk/vm/download_file?file_path=squeak.stack.v3...
It does! Wonder why it wouldn't build for me. It didn't even leave a LOG file as the cog/spur builds do.
So Jim - grab https://bintray.com/opensmalltalk/vm/download_file?file_path=squeak.stack.v3... - copy to your Pi - `tar xzvf squeak.stack.v3_linux32ARMv6_202101160259.tar.gz ` - `./sqstklinuxhtRPi/squeak my.image &` - Pro$it!
tim -- tim Rowledge; tim@rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim "Yummy" said Pooh, as he rotated Piglet slowly on the spit.
On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 07:07:25AM -0500, I wrote:
Ouch! I have a lot of artistic work which is developed in Squeak on Linux -- currently only up to 4.3 (which is working fine for me, so I haven't upgraded). I'm trying to run one of my 4.3 images on a Raspberry Pi 3B+ which is at Raspbian 10 (buster), and with the current armv6 squeak VM, getting the message
This interpreter (vers. 6521) cannot read image file (vers. 6504).
Suggestions?
--On Monday, January 18, 2021 09:15:46 AM -0500 "David T. Lewis" lewis@mail.msen.com wrote:
If you do not mind installing development tools on your Raspberry Pi, then the best thing to do is compile the VM yourself. Instructions for doing this are at http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6354
If you have any difficulty building your VM, please ask for help. And if it works without problems, please report back so we know.
It built without a hitch, and worked fine with all but one of the images I tested it on. The image that caused me trouble uses sound. Everything else worked fine, but the default build seemed not to support sound at all. The only drivers were vm-sound-null and vm-sound-custom.
I've had no luck with Linux sound on my desktop using anything other than vm-sound-pulse -- that works fine. squeak -h didn't show vm-sound-pulse as an available driver oh the version I built on the Raspberry Pi, so I set out to fix that. After installing the pulse development library, configure found it, and now I have an image on which everything just works. Thanks for the help!!
lit-archive 82% squeak -version 4.19.5-3796 #1 Wed 20 Jan 2021 08:45:38 AM EST /usr/bin/cc Linux lit-archive 5.4.83-v7+ #1379 SMP Mon Dec 14 13:08:57 GMT 2020 armv7l GNU/Linux plugin path: /usr/local/lib/squeak/4.19.5-3796 [default: /usr/local/lib/squeak/4.19.5-3796/]
* * *
You can find a precompiled VM for ARM v61 at http://squeakvm.org/unix/ which may work, although it is out of date so I am not sure if it will run on your Pi.
Results here are not so happy. The display driver is marked in red on that web page as "experimental"; on my images it mangles bitmaps in SketchMorphs in a way that is completely unacceptable. It looks almost as though there was some kind of attempt to do after-the-fact anti-aliasing that just went haywire on my graphics.
-Thanks, Jim
Good news/bad news.
The good news is that Pulse sound driver can be solved with:
1. apt install libpulse-dev 2. Make sure you say yes to clean, and rebuild.
The bad news is that while sound might "work" in the sense that sounds will now be produced we seem to have a problem with the sounds skipping and having pops in them. That's still being worked on....
cheers
bruce
On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 07:07:25AM -0500, I wrote:
Ouch! I have a lot of artistic work which is developed in Squeak on Linux -- currently only up to 4.3 (which is working fine for me, so I haven't upgraded). I'm trying to run one of my 4.3 images on a Raspberry Pi 3B+ which is at Raspbian 10 (buster), and with the current armv6 squeak VM, getting the message
This interpreter (vers. 6521) cannot read image file (vers. 6504).
Suggestions?
--On Monday, January 18, 2021 09:15:46 AM -0500 "David T. Lewis" wrote:
If you do not mind installing development tools on your Raspberry Pi, then the best thing to do is compile the VM yourself. Instructions for doing this are at http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6354
If you have any difficulty building your VM, please ask for help. And if it works without problems, please report back so we know.
It built without a hitch, and worked fine with all but one of the images I tested it on. The image that caused me trouble uses sound. Everything else worked fine, but the default build seemed not to support sound at all. The only drivers were vm-sound-null and vm-sound-custom.
I've had no luck with Linux sound on my desktop using anything other than vm-sound-pulse -- that works fine. squeak -h didn't show vm-sound-pulse as an available driver oh the version I built on the Raspberry Pi, so I set out to fix that. After installing the pulse development library, configure found it, and now I have an image on which everything just works. Thanks for the help!!
lit-archive 82% squeak -version 4.19.5-3796 #1 Wed 20 Jan 2021 08:45:38 AM EST /usr/bin/cc Linux lit-archive 5.4.83-v7+ #1379 SMP Mon Dec 14 13:08:57 GMT 2020 armv7l GNU/Linux plugin path: /usr/local/lib/squeak/4.19.5-3796 [default: /usr/local/lib/squeak/4.19.5-3796/]
You can find a precompiled VM for ARM v61 at http://squeakvm.org/unix/ which may work, although it is out of date so I am not sure if it will run on your Pi.
Results here are not so happy. The display driver is marked in red on that web page as "experimental"; on my images it mangles bitmaps in SketchMorphs in a way that is completely unacceptable. It looks almost as though there was some kind of attempt to do after-the-fact anti-aliasing that just went haywire on my graphics.
-Thanks, Jim
On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 11:56 PM Bruce O'Neel bruce.oneel@pckswarms.ch wrote:
Good news/bad news.
The good news is that Pulse sound driver can be solved with:
- apt install libpulse-dev
- Make sure you say yes to clean, and rebuild.
First, thank you Bruce!
Second:
$ git pull $ grep -i libpulse build.linux*/HowToBuild $
*PLEASE* (pretty please wit bells on, I'm *begging you*) make sure that build instructions are added to the various HowToBuild files. One cannot expect people to be able to build the VM if we don't maintain the documents. Further, having a discussion here is fine, but one should at least cc the opensmalltalk-vm / vm-dev list. That;'s the proper venue for discussing VM builds/bugs et al.
The bad news is that while sound might "work" in the sense that sounds will now be produced we seem to have a problem with the sounds skipping and having pops in them. That's still being worked on....
cheers
bruce
*01 February 2021 08:36 Jim Rosenberg <jr@amanue.com jr@amanue.com> wrote:*
On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 07:07:25AM -0500, I wrote:
Ouch! I have a lot of artistic work which is developed in Squeak on Linux -- currently only up to 4.3 (which is working fine for me, so I haven't upgraded). I'm trying to run one of my 4.3 images on a Raspberry Pi 3B+ which is at Raspbian 10 (buster), and with the current armv6 squeak VM, getting the message
This interpreter (vers. 6521) cannot read image file (vers. 6504).
Suggestions?
--On Monday, January 18, 2021 09:15:46 AM -0500 "David T. Lewis" wrote:
If you do not mind installing development tools on your Raspberry Pi,
then
the best thing to do is compile the VM yourself. Instructions for doing this are at http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6354
If you have any difficulty building your VM, please ask for help. And if it works without problems, please report back so we know.
It built without a hitch, and worked fine with all but one of the images I tested it on. The image that caused me trouble uses sound. Everything else worked fine, but the default build seemed not to support sound at all. The only drivers were vm-sound-null and vm-sound-custom.
I've had no luck with Linux sound on my desktop using anything other than vm-sound-pulse -- that works fine. squeak -h didn't show vm-sound-pulse as an available driver oh the version I built on the Raspberry Pi, so I set out to fix that. After installing the pulse development library, configure found it, and now I have an image on which everything just works. Thanks for the help!!
lit-archive 82% squeak -version 4.19.5-3796 #1 Wed 20 Jan 2021 08:45:38 AM EST /usr/bin/cc Linux lit-archive 5.4.83-v7+ #1379 SMP Mon Dec 14 13:08:57 GMT 2020 armv7l GNU/Linux plugin path: /usr/local/lib/squeak/4.19.5-3796 [default: /usr/local/lib/squeak/4.19.5-3796/]
You can find a precompiled VM for ARM v61 at http://squeakvm.org/unix/ which may work, although it is out of date so I am not sure if it will run on your Pi.
Results here are not so happy. The display driver is marked in red on that web page as "experimental"; on my images it mangles bitmaps in SketchMorphs in a way that is completely unacceptable. It looks almost as though there was some kind of attempt to do after-the-fact anti-aliasing that just went haywire on my graphics.
-Thanks, Jim
On 2. Feb 2021, at 04:12, Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 11:56 PM Bruce O'Neel bruce.oneel@pckswarms.ch wrote: Good news/bad news.
The good news is that Pulse sound driver can be solved with:
- apt install libpulse-dev
- Make sure you say yes to clean, and rebuild.
First, thank you Bruce!
Second:
$ git pull $ grep -i libpulse build.linux*/HowToBuild $
*PLEASE* (pretty please wit bells on, I'm *begging you*) make sure that build instructions are added to the various HowToBuild files. One cannot expect people to be able to build the VM if we don't maintain the documents.
If we have more than one build-instruction document, we have too many. One and only one HowTo, INSTALL or the like in the main directory must suffice. Aint nobody read more, whether we insist or not.
Preferably, also only one command (or command chain) to build should exist, but that's another story I'm not opening for debate here.
:)
-t
Further, having a discussion here is fine, but one should at least cc the opensmalltalk-vm / vm-dev list. That;'s the proper venue for discussing VM builds/bugs et al.
The bad news is that while sound might "work" in the sense that sounds will now be produced we seem to have a problem with the sounds skipping and having pops in them. That's still being worked on....
cheers
bruce
01 February 2021 08:36 Jim Rosenberg jr@amanue.com wrote:
On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 07:07:25AM -0500, I wrote:
Ouch! I have a lot of artistic work which is developed in Squeak on Linux -- currently only up to 4.3 (which is working fine for me, so I haven't upgraded). I'm trying to run one of my 4.3 images on a Raspberry Pi 3B+ which is at Raspbian 10 (buster), and with the current armv6 squeak VM, getting the message
This interpreter (vers. 6521) cannot read image file (vers. 6504).
Suggestions?
--On Monday, January 18, 2021 09:15:46 AM -0500 "David T. Lewis" wrote:
If you do not mind installing development tools on your Raspberry Pi, then the best thing to do is compile the VM yourself. Instructions for doing this are at http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6354
If you have any difficulty building your VM, please ask for help. And if it works without problems, please report back so we know.
It built without a hitch, and worked fine with all but one of the images I tested it on. The image that caused me trouble uses sound. Everything else worked fine, but the default build seemed not to support sound at all. The only drivers were vm-sound-null and vm-sound-custom.
I've had no luck with Linux sound on my desktop using anything other than vm-sound-pulse -- that works fine. squeak -h didn't show vm-sound-pulse as an available driver oh the version I built on the Raspberry Pi, so I set out to fix that. After installing the pulse development library, configure found it, and now I have an image on which everything just works. Thanks for the help!!
lit-archive 82% squeak -version 4.19.5-3796 #1 Wed 20 Jan 2021 08:45:38 AM EST /usr/bin/cc Linux lit-archive 5.4.83-v7+ #1379 SMP Mon Dec 14 13:08:57 GMT 2020 armv7l GNU/Linux plugin path: /usr/local/lib/squeak/4.19.5-3796 [default: /usr/local/lib/squeak/4.19.5-3796/]
You can find a precompiled VM for ARM v61 at http://squeakvm.org/unix/ which may work, although it is out of date so I am not sure if it will run on your Pi.
Results here are not so happy. The display driver is marked in red on that web page as "experimental"; on my images it mangles bitmaps in SketchMorphs in a way that is completely unacceptable. It looks almost as though there was some kind of attempt to do after-the-fact anti-aliasing that just went haywire on my graphics.
-Thanks, Jim
Hi Tobias,
On Feb 1, 2021, at 11:12 PM, Tobias Pape Das.Linux@gmx.de wrote:
On 2. Feb 2021, at 04:12, Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 11:56 PM Bruce O'Neel bruce.oneel@pckswarms.ch wrote: Good news/bad news.
The good news is that Pulse sound driver can be solved with:
- apt install libpulse-dev
- Make sure you say yes to clean, and rebuild.
First, thank you Bruce!
Second:
$ git pull $ grep -i libpulse build.linux*/HowToBuild $
*PLEASE* (pretty please wit bells on, I'm *begging you*) make sure that build instructions are added to the various HowToBuild files. One cannot expect people to be able to build the VM if we don't maintain the documents.
If we have more than one build-instruction document, we have too many.
I disagree. We have one build reasons per platform that we build on. Every platform is different. There is a little duplication but the structure we have now means the build documents are situated in the most relevant place.
One and only one HowTo, INSTALL or the like in the main directory must suffice. Aint nobody read more, whether we insist or not.
Preferably, also only one command (or command chain) to build should exist, but that's another story I'm not opening for debate here.
:)
-t
Further, having a discussion here is fine, but one should at least cc the opensmalltalk-vm / vm-dev list. That;'s the proper venue for discussing VM builds/bugs et al.
The bad news is that while sound might "work" in the sense that sounds will now be produced we seem to have a problem with the sounds skipping and having pops in them. That's still being worked on....
cheers
bruce
01 February 2021 08:36 Jim Rosenberg jr@amanue.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 07:07:25AM -0500, I wrote:
Ouch! I have a lot of artistic work which is developed in Squeak on Linux -- currently only up to 4.3 (which is working fine for me, so I haven't upgraded). I'm trying to run one of my 4.3 images on a Raspberry Pi 3B+ which is at Raspbian 10 (buster), and with the current armv6 squeak VM, getting the message
This interpreter (vers. 6521) cannot read image file (vers. 6504).
Suggestions?
--On Monday, January 18, 2021 09:15:46 AM -0500 "David T. Lewis" wrote:
If you do not mind installing development tools on your Raspberry Pi, then the best thing to do is compile the VM yourself. Instructions for doing this are at http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6354
If you have any difficulty building your VM, please ask for help. And if it works without problems, please report back so we know.
It built without a hitch, and worked fine with all but one of the images I tested it on. The image that caused me trouble uses sound. Everything else worked fine, but the default build seemed not to support sound at all. The only drivers were vm-sound-null and vm-sound-custom.
I've had no luck with Linux sound on my desktop using anything other than vm-sound-pulse -- that works fine. squeak -h didn't show vm-sound-pulse as an available driver oh the version I built on the Raspberry Pi, so I set out to fix that. After installing the pulse development library, configure found it, and now I have an image on which everything just works. Thanks for the help!!
lit-archive 82% squeak -version 4.19.5-3796 #1 Wed 20 Jan 2021 08:45:38 AM EST /usr/bin/cc Linux lit-archive 5.4.83-v7+ #1379 SMP Mon Dec 14 13:08:57 GMT 2020 armv7l GNU/Linux plugin path: /usr/local/lib/squeak/4.19.5-3796 [default: /usr/local/lib/squeak/4.19.5-3796/]
You can find a precompiled VM for ARM v61 at http://squeakvm.org/unix/ which may work, although it is out of date so I am not sure if it will run on your Pi.
Results here are not so happy. The display driver is marked in red on that web page as "experimental"; on my images it mangles bitmaps in SketchMorphs in a way that is completely unacceptable. It looks almost as though there was some kind of attempt to do after-the-fact anti-aliasing that just went haywire on my graphics.
-Thanks, Jim
On 2. Feb 2021, at 08:25, Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Tobias,
On Feb 1, 2021, at 11:12 PM, Tobias Pape Das.Linux@gmx.de wrote:
On 2. Feb 2021, at 04:12, Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 11:56 PM Bruce O'Neel bruce.oneel@pckswarms.ch wrote: Good news/bad news.
The good news is that Pulse sound driver can be solved with:
- apt install libpulse-dev
- Make sure you say yes to clean, and rebuild.
First, thank you Bruce!
Second:
$ git pull $ grep -i libpulse build.linux*/HowToBuild $
*PLEASE* (pretty please wit bells on, I'm *begging you*) make sure that build instructions are added to the various HowToBuild files. One cannot expect people to be able to build the VM if we don't maintain the documents.
If we have more than one build-instruction document, we have too many.
I disagree. We have one build reasons per platform that we build on. Every platform is different. There is a little duplication but the structure we have now means the build documents are situated in the most relevant place.
While it is true what you say, no-one is going to expect this dispersion or even read these infos. You can say that this is not proper, and you might be right, but people just won't do it.
Best regards -tobias :)
On 2021-02-02, at 1:07 AM, Tobias Pape Das.Linux@gmx.de wrote:
While it is true what you say, no-one is going to expect this dispersion or even read these infos. You can say that this is not proper, and you might be right, but people just won't do it.
So the solution is to link them together in some manner, surely? We do really need the different details for the various types of vm & platforms.
Would it be plausible to use Markdown format to link sections, or build a bundled doc?
tim -- tim Rowledge; tim@rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Useful random insult:- Understands English as well as any parrot.
It was only after 20 years of using Squeak that I was ever able to successfully build my first VM ever, just the other day, and only because the platform-specific instructions were good enough that even I was able to figure out the missing libraries myself.
Whatever is being discussed here about the HowToBuild's, I hope it is not about taking it back to some "generic" instructions that require expert C++ development knowledge to be able to figure out. That's probably where the idea that "no one reads it" came from because, sure, if it targets a "members only" C++ experts audience that doesn't need documentation, it won't get read. Likewise, when non-experts (e.g., me) spend valuable time trying, but failing, to build, it also won't get read again for a long time, because it's safer to just keep scraping up pre-built binaries wherever they can find them, rather than risk wasting more time failing to build.
Being able to build makes Squeak more valuable. Whatever the solution, I hope this usability will not regress.
- Chris
On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 12:22 PM tim Rowledge tim@rowledge.org wrote:
On 2021-02-02, at 1:07 AM, Tobias Pape Das.Linux@gmx.de wrote:
While it is true what you say, no-one is going to expect this dispersion
or even read these infos.
You can say that this is not proper, and you might be right, but people
just won't do it.
So the solution is to link them together in some manner, surely? We do really need the different details for the various types of vm & platforms.
Would it be plausible to use Markdown format to link sections, or build a bundled doc?
tim
tim Rowledge; tim@rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Useful random insult:- Understands English as well as any parrot.
Tobias,
On Feb 2, 2021, at 1:07 AM, Tobias Pape Das.Linux@gmx.de wrote:
On 2. Feb 2021, at 08:25, Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Tobias,
On Feb 1, 2021, at 11:12 PM, Tobias Pape Das.Linux@gmx.de wrote:
On 2. Feb 2021, at 04:12, Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 11:56 PM Bruce O'Neel bruce.oneel@pckswarms.ch wrote: Good news/bad news.
The good news is that Pulse sound driver can be solved with:
- apt install libpulse-dev
- Make sure you say yes to clean, and rebuild.
First, thank you Bruce!
Second:
$ git pull $ grep -i libpulse build.linux*/HowToBuild $
*PLEASE* (pretty please wit bells on, I'm *begging you*) make sure that build instructions are added to the various HowToBuild files. One cannot expect people to be able to build the VM if we don't maintain the documents.
If we have more than one build-instruction document, we have too many.
I disagree. We have one build reasons per platform that we build on. Every platform is different. There is a little duplication but the structure we have now means the build documents are situated in the most relevant place.
While it is true what you say, no-one is going to expect this dispersion or even read these infos. You can say that this is not proper, and you might be right, but people just won't do it.
This is your projection. You do not know that this is the case. And it won’t be true of all people. Instead of being negative, encouraging others to do the right thing might improve things.
Best regards -tobias :)
_,,,^..^,,,_ (phone)
There are 3 axes at least here for linux
1. CPU (includes 32/64 bit) 2. OS 3. Distribution
All three have to line up for someone to go from a git checkout to a build on an ARM or x86 linux version. So my little hint works correctly on RaspberryPI OS and most other Debian based systems. And not on others.
Maybe we should separate out the build instructions into two files?
The current build instructions file which references a pre-requisites file or files.
I don't like the additional complexity, but, I'd really like the files to be short. I have found over the years that line 25 is the first line not read in the README. For the few that will read the files you have to get all the important info in the first few lines of any instructions.
My two cents on this debate:
I think it has already proven in the past that self-explaining code is more efficient for the purpose of documentation than a long manual which (almost) no one is willing to read, especially, this fact has been proven in Smalltalk. Unlike plain English, code is not a redundant structure that can become obsolete, code can be tested automatically, code can be reused, and when decorated with a proper amount of explaining comments, code can also be easier to read than a long wall of text.
In the era of IaC, we should apply the same pattern for the documentation of compile & build processes. This was also my motivation for https://github.com/LinqLover/squeak-raspi-docker.
It could be a Dockerfile, a Vagrantfile, or maybe also a simple bash file - the main thing is to write something that can be automated in a CI. And when there are 2 times x times y build scripts, one could talk about refactoring these scripts in the same way we refactor Morphic code or Collections logic or whatever else. I could imagine this could be much more fun than asking developers to write walls of "unstructured data", i.e. text. :-)
Best,
Christoph
http://www.hpi.de/ ________________________________ Von: Squeak-dev squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org im Auftrag von Bruce O'Neel bruce.oneel@pckswarms.ch Gesendet: Dienstag, 2. Februar 2021 17:23:34 An: bruce.oneel@pckswarms.ch; The general-purpose Squeak developers list Betreff: Re: [squeak-dev] Cannot read 4.3 image on Raspberry Pi
There are 3 axes at least here for linux
1. CPU (includes 32/64 bit) 2. OS 3. Distribution
All three have to line up for someone to go from a git checkout to a build on an ARM or x86 linux version. So my little hint works correctly on RaspberryPI OS and most other Debian based systems. And not on others.
Maybe we should separate out the build instructions into two files?
The current build instructions file which references a pre-requisites file or files.
I don't like the additional complexity, but, I'd really like the files to be short. I have found over the years that line 25 is the first line not read in the README. For the few that will read the files you have to get all the important info in the first few lines of any instructions.
01 February 2021 08:56 "Bruce O'Neel" bruce.oneel@pckswarms.ch wrote: Good news/bad news.
The good news is that Pulse sound driver can be solved with:
1. apt install libpulse-dev 2. Make sure you say yes to clean, and rebuild.
The bad news is that while sound might "work" in the sense that sounds will now be produced we seem to have a problem with the sounds skipping and having pops in them. That's still being worked on....
cheers
bruce
01 February 2021 08:36 Jim Rosenberg jr@amanue.com wrote:
On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 07:07:25AM -0500, I wrote:
Ouch! I have a lot of artistic work which is developed in Squeak on Linux -- currently only up to 4.3 (which is working fine for me, so I haven't upgraded). I'm trying to run one of my 4.3 images on a Raspberry Pi 3B+ which is at Raspbian 10 (buster), and with the current armv6 squeak VM, getting the message
This interpreter (vers. 6521) cannot read image file (vers. 6504).
Suggestions?
--On Monday, January 18, 2021 09:15:46 AM -0500 "David T. Lewis" wrote:
If you do not mind installing development tools on your Raspberry Pi, then the best thing to do is compile the VM yourself. Instructions for doing this are at http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6354
If you have any difficulty building your VM, please ask for help. And if it works without problems, please report back so we know.
It built without a hitch, and worked fine with all but one of the images I tested it on. The image that caused me trouble uses sound. Everything else worked fine, but the default build seemed not to support sound at all. The only drivers were vm-sound-null and vm-sound-custom.
I've had no luck with Linux sound on my desktop using anything other than vm-sound-pulse -- that works fine. squeak -h didn't show vm-sound-pulse as an available driver oh the version I built on the Raspberry Pi, so I set out to fix that. After installing the pulse development library, configure found it, and now I have an image on which everything just works. Thanks for the help!!
lit-archive 82% squeak -version 4.19.5-3796 #1 Wed 20 Jan 2021 08:45:38 AM EST /usr/bin/cc Linux lit-archive 5.4.83-v7+ #1379 SMP Mon Dec 14 13:08:57 GMT 2020 armv7l GNU/Linux plugin path: /usr/local/lib/squeak/4.19.5-3796 [default: /usr/local/lib/squeak/4.19.5-3796/]
* * *
You can find a precompiled VM for ARM v61 at http://squeakvm.org/unix/ which may work, although it is out of date so I am not sure if it will run on your Pi.
Results here are not so happy. The display driver is marked in red on that web page as "experimental"; on my images it mangles bitmaps in SketchMorphs in a way that is completely unacceptable. It looks almost as though there was some kind of attempt to do after-the-fact anti-aliasing that just went haywire on my graphics.
-Thanks, Jim
<>
Hi Bruce,
On Feb 2, 2021, at 8:24 AM, Bruce O'Neel bruce.oneel@pckswarms.ch wrote:
There are 3 axes at least here for linux
- CPU (includes 32/64 bit)
- OS
- Distribution
All three have to line up for someone to go from a git checkout to a build on an ARM or x86 linux version. So my little hint works correctly on RaspberryPI OS and most other Debian based systems. And not on others.
Maybe we should separate out the build instructions into two files?
The current build instructions file which references a pre-requisites file or files.
I don't like the additional complexity, but, I'd really like the files to be short. I have found over the years that line 25 is the first line not read in the README. For the few that will read the files you have to get all the important info in the first few lines of any instructions.
As Chris Muller’s message proves, the HowToBuild files are a viral resource. I agree that few will read something which isn’t useful. But the utility of the HowToBuild files is increased if we put the effort into maintaining them. Further, if they are useful we can draw more attention to them, and suggest strongly to people that they read beyond line 25.
The alternative is having people trawl the web, email lists, etc for information that will inevitably be incoherent. Hence the alternative is having people fail to build the vm. And in the long term that will not contribute the the health and growth of the community.
01 February 2021 08:56 "Bruce O'Neel" bruce.oneel@pckswarms.ch wrote: Good news/bad news.
The good news is that Pulse sound driver can be solved with:
- apt install libpulse-dev
- Make sure you say yes to clean, and rebuild.
The bad news is that while sound might "work" in the sense that sounds will now be produced we seem to have a problem with the sounds skipping and having pops in them. That's still being worked on....
cheers
bruce
01 February 2021 08:36 Jim Rosenberg jr@amanue.com wrote:
On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 07:07:25AM -0500, I wrote:
Ouch! I have a lot of artistic work which is developed in Squeak on Linux -- currently only up to 4.3 (which is working fine for me, so I haven't upgraded). I'm trying to run one of my 4.3 images on a Raspberry Pi 3B+ which is at Raspbian 10 (buster), and with the current armv6 squeak VM, getting the message
This interpreter (vers. 6521) cannot read image file (vers. 6504).
Suggestions?
--On Monday, January 18, 2021 09:15:46 AM -0500 "David T. Lewis" wrote:
If you do not mind installing development tools on your Raspberry Pi, then the best thing to do is compile the VM yourself. Instructions for doing this are at http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6354
If you have any difficulty building your VM, please ask for help. And if it works without problems, please report back so we know.
It built without a hitch, and worked fine with all but one of the images I tested it on. The image that caused me trouble uses sound. Everything else worked fine, but the default build seemed not to support sound at all. The only drivers were vm-sound-null and vm-sound-custom.
I've had no luck with Linux sound on my desktop using anything other than vm-sound-pulse -- that works fine. squeak -h didn't show vm-sound-pulse as an available driver oh the version I built on the Raspberry Pi, so I set out to fix that. After installing the pulse development library, configure found it, and now I have an image on which everything just works. Thanks for the help!!
lit-archive 82% squeak -version 4.19.5-3796 #1 Wed 20 Jan 2021 08:45:38 AM EST /usr/bin/cc Linux lit-archive 5.4.83-v7+ #1379 SMP Mon Dec 14 13:08:57 GMT 2020 armv7l GNU/Linux plugin path: /usr/local/lib/squeak/4.19.5-3796 [default: /usr/local/lib/squeak/4.19.5-3796/]
You can find a precompiled VM for ARM v61 at http://squeakvm.org/unix/ which may work, although it is out of date so I am not sure if it will run on your Pi.
Results here are not so happy. The display driver is marked in red on that web page as "experimental"; on my images it mangles bitmaps in SketchMorphs in a way that is completely unacceptable. It looks almost as though there was some kind of attempt to do after-the-fact anti-aliasing that just went haywire on my graphics.
-Thanks, Jim
<>
Hi Jim,
are you up to building your own VM? If so, I've just committed files that may succeed in building a JIT for that image format. If you clone https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git and cd to build.linuxARMv6/squeak.cog.v3 and run ./makealldirty you may be in luck. Instructions on installing necessary support libraries are in build.linuxARMv6/HowToBuild. Report back to vm-dev if you succeed or you have problems.
On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 4:08 AM Jim Rosenberg jr@amanue.com wrote:
Ouch! I have a lot of artistic work which is developed in Squeak on Linux -- currently only up to 4.3 (which is working fine for me, so I haven't upgraded). I'm trying to run one of my 4.3 images on a Raspberry Pi 3B+ which is at Raspbian 10 (buster), and with the current armv6 squeak VM, getting the message
This interpreter (vers. 6521) cannot read image file (vers. 6504).
Suggestions?
-Thanks in advance, Jim
squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
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Bruce O'Neel -
Chris Muller -
David T. Lewis -
Eliot Miranda -
Jim Rosenberg -
Nicolas Cellier -
Thiede, Christoph -
tim Rowledge -
Tobias Pape