[Seaside] Re: Starting out

aditya siram aditya.siram at gmail.com
Wed Dec 17 22:29:41 UTC 2008

I used Seaside and Smalltalk for the first time this summer. It wasn't easy
but, unlike some online communities, these folks were willing to talk
patiently to a  "dumb-noob". And it was well worth it.

In the beginning, your productivity will take a *huge* hit and your
co-workers may even look at you with contempt. Of the many wheels you will
re-invent the most frustrating ones (for me) are those that have been
implemented in other languages/frameworks and are well-documented and mature
- login boxes/user management for instance.

I certainly sympathize with your frustration. And the more innovative your
tools, the less the distance between you and the designers,  the harder you
have run.

The big win, and for me the one that trumped everything else was the helpful
community and that Seaside and Smalltalk are jam-packed with *concepts* not
brand-names. The concepts tend to last longer and carry over to many other
areas of computer science.

For this reason Seaside will make you better web developer, and Smalltalk
will make you a better programmer. But it will be a while before you can
impress your boss by delivering on a project that was due "yesterday".


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Michael Atkisson <
michael_atkisson at comcast.net> wrote:

> >
> > I'll second that, the idea that you're going to do anything well in the
> web
> > app space without knowing HTML, CSS, and JavaScript is just naive.  Web
> apps
> > will likely never be the easy drag and drop build it all in a GUI
> > environment you see in desktop frameworks.  Secondly, basic HTML and CSS
> > skills are not difficult to learn, if you can program then you can
> > understand a couple of simple markup languages with little effort.
> >
> > Ramon Leon
> > http://onsmalltalk.com
> >
> I personally do have a basic knowledge of html, javascript and css.  What I
> had
> to know to get a project done.  But basically all I hear you saying.  you
> don't
> want to put anything in Seaside that would make it easier for someone with
> a limited knowledge of these areas to actually do useful work before they
> can become experts.
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