[Seaside] Re: Comparison of Aida/Web, Seaside and Iliad web frameworks

Janko Mivšek janko.mivsek at eranova.si
Wed Jun 22 20:42:45 UTC 2011

Hi Nick,

S, Nick Ager piše:

>     On the web we have an opportunity, are we loosing it?
>     That's why I'm pushing this comparison and that's why I'd have and ESUG
>     talk titled "On the web frontiers with Smalltalk". And a panel is
>     planned too.
> So let's focus on the future - rather than on what features we currently
> have. 

Yes, but first you need to assess the present. As I said I started
comparison to asses Aida strengths and weaknesses right with a goal to
plan the direction for the future.

> Clearly JTalk is innovative. 
> Anything similar you'd like to share with us? 

Certainly the seamless Ajax integration, then maybe unified
communication between client and server (Ajax, Comet, WebSocket over the
same unified channel), extending the browser's event loop to the server
(basic idea behind node.js), then of course incorporating Jtalk into the
whole picture. And not forget the support for HTML features like
geolocation, offline, local store, canvas, etc etc.

> I've heard rumours that Gilad Bracha has a Newspeak to Javascript
> compiler working. Anyone seen anything?

We have now Jtalk which will be actively supported and used in real
projects soon, so I'd bet on Jtalk alone.

> As another example, I was intrigued to learn that the web version of
> Angry Birds (http://chrome.angrybirds.com/) used the Java->Javascript
> translator in GWT (Google web toolkit) to automate the translation of
> (some of) the game from Java to Javascript (sadly I've lost the link).
> One way of looking at this, is that all web apps will potentially gain
> access to the libraries in the Java ecosystem; in this case JBox2D (the
> physics engine) on the client.

Angry birds as a web app is one of the clearest signs that web
technologies are now able to replace native apps even for such demanding
examples as a game like Angry birds is. What we can do is to experiment
towards supporting such game development from our frameworks? This would
be a real stress test of them!

About GWT and Java in general: I'd skip it and rather concentrate on
JavaScript on server instead. With Google V8 engine and node.js momentum
we will soon have a plethora of JS libraries too, also those connecting
to Java ecosystem.

> Although it's great to be able to generate Javascript from your backend,
> but what about making it equally easy to target Objective-C based
> iPhones clients, and Java based Android clients? Perhaps
> Lukas's Helvetia is part of the puzzle?

Here the PhoneGap is IMO the easiest way to go. That is, a web app
packaged to look like native one. With all HTML5 support like
geolocation, filesystem etc of course.

Best regards

Janko Mivšek
Smalltalk Web Application Server

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