[squeakland] [etoys-dev] About Skeleton

Randall Caton rcaton at cnu.edu
Thu Oct 27 05:46:08 EDT 2011 

Ricardo,

I looked at your project with skeleton and on the surface it is the same as
what your wrote for GSoC. Either would be great with me. I couldn't evaluate
which underlying code is better.

I would also like to see your chart, calendar and graphics IO objects
included. Would it be possible for you to make a version of Etoys that has
all those in it so we could test it on the XO?

Thank you for continuing your great work.

Randy

On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 9:34 AM, Ricardo Moran <richi.moran at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi guys, I haven't received any response from Avi Bryant regarding the
> license of his csv parser, probably because I might have an old/incorrect
> mail. But anyway, it doesn't matter, because it's easy to write one. So I
> uploaded a new version of Skeleton with my little csv parser and I moved the
> CSV package to treated.
>
> I think this version is good enough to be integrated in Etoys, what do you
> think?
>
> Cheers,
> Richo
>
> P.S. I attached a simple project in order to help educators test it without
> going through Monticello :)
>
> On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 9:21 PM, Ricardo Moran <richi.moran at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 9:38 PM, karl ramberg <karlramberg at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 1:02 AM, Ricardo Moran <richi.moran at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > Hi,
>>> > I uploaded to the inbox a version of Skeleton with a few changes of
>>> mine
>>> > that allows you to use a spreadsheet just as you would use mine to
>>> > import/export data and iterate over its contents.
>>> > I also commited a version of the CSV package, which I use to do the
>>> > importing. However, I didn't remember to look at the license of the
>>> package
>>> > before clicking commit and now that I did, I see it doesn't specify
>>> MIT, so
>>> > I'll ask the author about it (please forgive me and remove the commit
>>> if it
>>> > can be a problem).
>>> > Anyway, if you can please tell me what you think.
>>> > Cheers,
>>> > Richo
>>>
>>> That is CSV Parser from SqueakSource right ?
>>> I don't see a licence anywhere ...
>>> Can you mail Avi Bryant and ask ?
>>>
>>
>> Yes, I did. I'm waiting for an answer now...
>>
>> Richo
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Karl
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 7:28 PM, karl ramberg <karlramberg at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 6:59 PM, Randy Caton <rcaton at cnu.edu> wrote:
>>> >> > I like the spreadsheet that Ricardo created because it is simple and
>>> >> > basic
>>> >> > and allows I/O. It leaves more for learners to create. Couldn't the
>>> >> > functions already in etoys be used in the cells? Does Skeleton allow
>>> >> > plots?
>>> >> > If so, then what about Ricardo's graphs? I'd like to see them in
>>> etoys
>>> >> > also.
>>> >> > Randy
>>> >>
>>> >> Hi
>>> >> I think it is possible to make all these graphs out of skeleton.
>>> >> From what I see is Skeleton a extension to the way we script and
>>> >> visualize in Etoys,
>>> >> It seems to have a thought out model.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Only working with it and managing the code will tell if it something
>>> >> we find useful and worth while.
>>> >>
>>> >> Karl
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Randall Caton
>>> >> > 41596 Bald Eagle Drive
>>> >> > Bigfork, MN 56628
>>> >> > 218-832-3490
>>> >> > http://www.pcs.cnu.edu/~rcaton
>>> >> > Sent from my iPhone
>>> >> > On Oct 11, 2011, at 11:41 AM, Ricardo Moran <richi.moran at gmail.com>
>>> >> > wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 11:20 AM, Bert Freudenberg
>>> >> > <bert at freudenbergs.de>
>>> >> > wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On 11.10.2011, at 14:34, Ricardo Moran wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> > Hi,
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > The squeak list is currently discussing about a spreadsheet
>>> morph,
>>> >> >> > and
>>> >> >> > that just reminded me about how cool is Skeleton actually. So I'm
>>> >> >> > wondering
>>> >> >> > why it is not in Etoys? I found an old discussion stating that it
>>> >> >> > could be a
>>> >> >> > nice extension to Etoys but the biggest issue being the slow
>>> loading
>>> >> >> > of
>>> >> >> > external code. I have to agree with that being a problem but I
>>> think
>>> >> >> > we
>>> >> >> > might reconsider just include it in the image as with Dr Geo.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > I know we already have a bloated image full of half finished
>>> projects
>>> >> >> > but from what I briefly tested Skeleton seems to work out of the
>>> box.
>>> >> >> > And it
>>> >> >> > doesn't add a *huge* amount of new code. See this simple
>>> comparison
>>> >> >> > with
>>> >> >> > DrGeo:
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') systemCategories size. 2
>>> >> >> > (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') classes size. 38
>>> >> >> > (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') methods size. 654
>>> >> >> > (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') linesOfCode. 4765
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') systemCategories size. 10
>>> >> >> > (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') classes size. 214
>>> >> >> > (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') methods size.  1863
>>> >> >> > (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') linesOfCode.  17154
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Another issue, I guess, is that if Skeleton gets included someone
>>> >> >> > will
>>> >> >> > have to maintain it, but from what I've seen the latest version
>>> dates
>>> >> >> > from
>>> >> >> > 2006 and it still works today. So maybe it won't be that big of
>>> an
>>> >> >> > issue.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Anyway, if you want to test it:
>>> >> >> > http://www.languagegame.org:8080/ggame/11.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Cheers,
>>> >> >> > Richo
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> How does it compare to the data table thing you did in your GSoC
>>> >> >> project?
>>> >> >
>>> >> > My data table serves the only purpose of importing/exporting CSV
>>> files,
>>> >> > but
>>> >> > not much else, whereas Skeleton is a proper spreadsheet, it supports
>>> >> > functions, and is well integrated with etoys via drag and drop of
>>> tiles.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Would be nice to have only one, not two table-like objects.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > I agree, but since my table is not integrated anyway, I vote for
>>> >> > integrating
>>> >> > Skeleton which is much better than what I did. And if we want the
>>> I/O of
>>> >> > csv
>>> >> > files, I could find the way of adapting Skeleton. It shouldn't be
>>> that
>>> >> > difficult, I suppose.
>>> >> > Cheers,
>>> >> > Richo
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> - Bert -
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
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>>> >> >> squeakland at squeakland.org
>>> >> >> http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
>>> >> >
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>>> >> >
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>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
The views expressed in this email are my own
and not necessarily those of CNU.

Randall Caton
41596 Bald Eagle Drive
Bigfork, MN 56628
218-832-3490

email: rcaton at cnu.edu
web: www.pcs.cnu.edu/~rcaton
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