Squeak-dev February 1998

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110 participants
320 discussions

Re: A suggestion for factoring the list
by Ted K. 24 Feb '98

24 Feb '98

>Is anyone completely boycotting USENET? USENET is not going to work for the Disney folks. We do not have access to any net news servers at all (correct me if I'm wrong). Note that we also don't have reverse DNS. Anyone want to give us netnews access on their server machine? --Ted. Ted Kaehler, Walt Disney Imagineering, R&D (home) 3415 Cork Oak Way, Palo Alto, CA 94303. voice (650) 424-1070 http://www.webPage.com/~kaehler2/ *** All cities in area code 415 south of San Francisco are now in 650. 415 no longer works for them. ***

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Re: A suggestion for factoring the list
by n.moray＠surrey.ac.uk 24 Feb '98

24 Feb '98

OK- sorry I started it! I'll continue to read everything and do manual filtering! It's probvably good for me in some spiritual way! neville >Prof. Moray (n.moray(a)surrey.ac.uk) said: >>I'm very interested in other people's problems - and even more in the >>solutions to things which don'ty seem to work, but, for example, I >>spoend about 30 minutes a day trashing discussions of hashing, >>efficient coding for floats, and so on. I am happy to bow down and >>worship before those clever enough to concern themselves with the >>latter kjind of things, but it would be great if there were some way of >>saving that 30 minutes to 1 hour each time I log on! > >I think that one thing which may be overlooked in the discussion of >splitting the list is that exchanges on this (and any other) list often >stray from the original topic. What starts as a "newbie" question ("Why >do two Floats which should be equal not compare 'correctly'?") may >evolve into a discussion of more complex issues involving changes to the >class lib or the VM. If the list is split this evolutionary discussion >style might be compromised or lost, leaving us all with less to talk >about. Just an observation... > >Bob Jarvis Work email: N.Moray(a)surrey.ac.uk Home email: nmoray(a)globalnet.co.uk send messages to both if Urgent Work address: DERA Professor of Applied Cognitive Psychology, Department of Psychology, University of Surrey, Guildford, Surrey GU2 5XH United Kingdom. Phone number: +44-(0)1483-300-800 and ask for extension 2865 Fax: +44-(0)1483-32813 Home address: 10a Hampstead Hill Gardens, London NW3 2PL. Phone: +44-(0)171-431-4813 "Be well, do good work, and keep in touch" (Garrison Keiler)

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Re: A suggestion for factoring the list
by n.moray＠surrey.ac.uk 24 Feb '98

24 Feb '98

>What if we had an auto-approving moderator for the group? All mail >would still go through a central email address, and thus the group >could still be robustly archived just like now. Further, that address >could even echo to a mailing list, for people who have poor or no >USENET access. > >Regarding spam, I'll be posting to USENET whether there is a Squeak >group or not, so it doesn't much matter to me. Is anyone completely >boycotting USENET? > > I'm not boycotting it,. but all I do is log on each day using Eudora with my Mac and look for interesting things. Typically, (as today) when I have been away for thrtee days, there are nearly 100 messages, of which about 80 are Squeak. Now I am a Squeak consumer, not a generator - I'm not even a computer pscoiemtoists - I want to use Squeak for quite practical purposes which are nothing to do with advanced code, etc., but just to learn how to use it effectively for wriuting some AI kind of programs. I'm very interested in other people's problems - and even more in the solutions -0 to things which don'ty seem to work, but, for example, I spoend about 30 minutes a day trashing discussions of hashing, efficient coding for floats, and so on. I am happy to bow down and worship before those clever enough to concern themselves with the latter kjind of things, but it would be great if there were some way of saving that 30 minutes to 1 hour each time I log on! neville >Lex > > > > >Boris G. Chr. Shingarov writes: > > Christopher, > > > > I agree! > > > > - boris > > > > > > > > Christopher Oliver wrote: > > > > > > > As was already suggested on this list, I think Squeak discussion > > > > should be moved to a moderated newsgroup. Newsreaders are > > > > significantly better at managing a plethora of messages. > > > > > > Writing as technical administrator at an ISP, let me whole- > > > heartedly reject this. The mailing list, fragmented or not, > > > is reliable. News feeds are far less so. I.e. maybe your > > > clever note got archived on AltaVista or DejaNews. Maybe it > > > dropped in the bit bucket. At least with the mail, I know > > > where things are. Further, with the spam problem, we lose > > > the ability to discuss without mangling our mail identities. > > > With the mailing list, I know the author and his interests, > > > so I know in general how to direct my replies. In short, > > > USENET is no place for serious discussion. (Maybe even > > > light hearted discussion there is a bad idea.) > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > -- > > > Christopher Oliver Traverse Communications > > > Systems Coordinator 223 Grandview Pkwy, Suite 108 > > > oliver(a)traverse.com Traverse City, Michigan, 49684 > > > (define magic (lambda (f) (lambda (x) x))) > > > (define (more-magic n) (lambda (f) (lambda (x) (f ((n f) x))))) Work email: N.Moray(a)surrey.ac.uk Home email: nmoray(a)globalnet.co.uk send messages to both if Urgent Work address: DERA Professor of Applied Cognitive Psychology, Department of Psychology, University of Surrey, Guildford, Surrey GU2 5XH United Kingdom. Phone number: +44-(0)1483-300-800 and ask for extension 2865 Fax: +44-(0)1483-32813 Home address: 10a Hampstead Hill Gardens, London NW3 2PL. Phone: +44-(0)171-431-4813 "Be well, do good work, and keep in touch" (Garrison Keiler)

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Re: A suggestion for factoring the list
by n.moray＠surrey.ac.uk 24 Feb '98

24 Feb '98

As a newbie , it sounds very good. I guess from time to time those of use who need the help can prod you experts when we put something on *squeak and no expert rerads it for a week! Neville >Squeakers, >Given all the talk lately about the plethora of postings on the list, I thought >I might suggest a possible factoring to improve the so-called "signal to noise >ratio", especially seeing that ones person's signal is another's noise, or >signal is in the ear of the beholder. > >* squeak-announce remains for general announcements, especially new >version/platform availability. >*squeak-vm for all the VM implementers and their discussions >*squeak-library for all the talk on fixing and enhancing base classes (float >hash, equality vs identity, collections, et.al.) >*squeak-apps for morphic, PWS, Siren,Draw80, etc. >*squeak for general info and questions, how tos, newbie tutorials, etc. > >Better ideas? Let's hear them! > >Regards, >Sam > > >Sam S. Adams, Distinguished Engineer, IBM Network Computing Software Division >tie line 444-0736, outside 919-254-0736, email: ssadams(a)us.ibm.com ><<Hebrews 11:6, Proverbs 3:5-6, Romans 1:16-17, I Corinthians 1:10>> Work email: N.Moray(a)surrey.ac.uk Home email: nmoray(a)globalnet.co.uk send messages to both if Urgent Work address: DERA Professor of Applied Cognitive Psychology, Department of Psychology, University of Surrey, Guildford, Surrey GU2 5XH United Kingdom. Phone number: +44-(0)1483-300-800 and ask for extension 2865 Fax: +44-(0)1483-32813 Home address: 10a Hampstead Hill Gardens, London NW3 2PL. Phone: +44-(0)171-431-4813 "Be well, do good work, and keep in touch" (Garrison Keiler)

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Re: A suggestion for factoring the list
by jarvisb＠timken.com 24 Feb '98

24 Feb '98

Lex Spoon (lex(a)cc.gatech.edu) spake: >What if we had an auto-approving moderator for the group? All mail >would still go through a central email address, and thus the group >could still be robustly archived just like now. Further, that address >could even echo to a mailing list, for people who have poor or no >USENET access. I don't understand what an "auto-approving moderator" for a Usenet group is. Does this mean it's a moderated group, but everything gets approved for posting automagically, just as in an unmoderated group? If so, what's the point? SPAM would not be controlled, nor would this improve the reliability of Usenet (or would it?). >Regarding spam, I'll be posting to USENET whether there is a Squeak >group or not, so it doesn't much matter to me. Is anyone completely >boycotting USENET? I'll still post to Usenet as well, principally because I know of no mailing lists for some of the topics I'm interested in. A boycott, eh? Not a bad idea. Let's ask Sanford Wallace how he feels about it. :-) Bob Jarvis

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Re: A suggestion for factoring the list
by jarvisb＠timken.com 24 Feb '98

24 Feb '98

Christopher Oliver (oliver(a)fritz.co.traverse.com) quoth: >> As was already suggested on this list, I think Squeak discussion >> should be moved to a moderated newsgroup. Newsreaders are >> significantly better at managing a plethora of messages. > >Writing as technical administrator at an ISP, let me whole- >heartedly reject this. The mailing list, fragmented or not, >is reliable. News feeds are far less so. I.e. maybe your >clever note got archived on AltaVista or DejaNews. Maybe it >dropped in the bit bucket. At least with the mail, I know >where things are. Further, with the spam problem, we lose >the ability to discuss without mangling our mail identities. >With the mailing list, I know the author and his interests, >so I know in general how to direct my replies. In short, >USENET is no place for serious discussion. (Maybe even >light hearted discussion there is a bad idea.) Let me weigh in with whole-hearted agreement for what Chris said. Uselessnet is a great way to communicate if you absolutely, completely don't care whether your messages get through or not. I get news from two feeds and STILL miss messages. Mailing lists are pretty reliable. As far as splitting the list goes, I don't think the traffic here is excessive. Someone earlier said they'd collected 500 messages in the past month. That's 16 or 17 per day, on average. Certainly not so many that I have to spend hours wading through them. In my opinion we should stick with what we have. If someone is dying to create a comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak group, go ahead - but I personally will continue to look here for Squeak stuff. Your mileage may vary. Bob Jarvis

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A beginner's question regarding Inside Smalltalk vol II
by Philippe de Rochambeau 24 Feb '98

24 Feb '98

Please disregard my previous questions regarding the first example (page 16) in Wilf LaLonde's book. I have solved most of them except one: - the MotherDuck class has a method called "initialize". However, at no point in the code is that method called. Why? Does the MotherDuck class have an ancestor that calls "initialize" when "new" is used? Does anyone know Wilf LaLonde e-mail address? Many thanks. Philippe de Rochambeau

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A suggestion for factoring the list
by Sam Adams 24 Feb '98

24 Feb '98

Squeakers, Given all the talk lately about the plethora of postings on the list, I thought I might suggest a possible factoring to improve the so-called "signal to noise ratio", especially seeing that ones person's signal is another's noise, or signal is in the ear of the beholder. * squeak-announce remains for general announcements, especially new version/platform availability. *squeak-vm for all the VM implementers and their discussions *squeak-library for all the talk on fixing and enhancing base classes (float hash, equality vs identity, collections, et.al.) *squeak-apps for morphic, PWS, Siren,Draw80, etc. *squeak for general info and questions, how tos, newbie tutorials, etc. Better ideas? Let's hear them! Regards, Sam Sam S. Adams, Distinguished Engineer, IBM Network Computing Software Division tie line 444-0736, outside 919-254-0736, email: ssadams(a)us.ibm.com <<Hebrews 11:6, Proverbs 3:5-6, Romans 1:16-17, I Corinthians 1:10>>

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Re: A suggestion for factoring the list
by Mike Klein 24 Feb '98

24 Feb '98

Why bother moderating? Spam avoidance? > Now, to find somebody with enough free time to moderate.... > > > --Chris

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Re: A suggestion for factoring the list
by Jon M. DeLaurier 24 Feb '98

24 Feb '98

Squeakers: Bijan Parsia spoke: >Subject: Re: A suggestion for factoring the list >Sent: 23/02/1998 8:24 >Received: 23/02/1998 10:50 >From: Bijan Parsia, bparsia(a)email.unc.edu >Reply-To: squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu >To: squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu > >At 10:54 AM -0500 2/23/98, Sam Adams wrote: > >>Squeakers, [snip] >I don't think we should fracture the list. I scanned over the last few >weeks of traffic, and it didn't seem that bad. Some days a flood; other >days, a trickle. I don't think we should judge that there is a need for >more lists by the peaks. > I have gotten more than 500 messages this month so far on this list alone. We all have lots of time to send and read messages! >A squeak-learn list makes sense becasue it's worth shielding newcomers from >disscussions requiring a fair bit of background knowledge whilst they get >their feet wet. > If a separate list for newbies is created, then who will be the experts on that list to answer the questions, give advice and lots of encouragment? Any volunteers? >But an FAQ, or a mention of the Squeak wikiwiki site in the sign up message >would serve just as well, I suspect. > >If one is *really* in to filtering down the messages one sees (and can't >seem to do it on the basis of their subjects ;), then I would suggest >prefixes before list splits, e.g., [VM], [LIB], [ANN], [APP], [LEARN], etc. > >Cheers, >Bijan Parsia. > Such factoring is perfect for Smalltalk. But that would require a mailer to be included in squeak, in which such topics could be archived and recalled by all those who, after they have gotten their feet wet, and are starting to drown, can peruse and learn more. My mailer certainly cannot do the filing by categories, but perhaps there are some which can. I do not mean filtering. My preference would be to have one list, but the user have the capability to factor and archive the messages as he/she wishes. A good squeak application. I am too much of a newbie to do this. Jon ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jon M. DeLaurier | vox : 250.656.6176 | | 2209 Bradford Av | | | Sidney, B.C. V8L2C8 | | | Canada | email: jdelaurier(a)vanisle.net | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | It is always darkest just before it gets black. (Dave Broadfoot 1996) | -------------------------------------------------------------------------

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