Squeak-dev August 1998

squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org

99 participants
188 discussions

RE: Size limit to changes
by glenn 13 Aug '98

13 Aug '98

I'd encourage this. At the cost of 1 by te per method (and if my algebra is correct, only 1/2 byte per method if objects are 16-bit padded and 1/4 byte per method if 32-bit), this could be a hook for interesting source experiments. Enabling interesting work for low cost seems very Squeaky to me. glenn At 10:49 PM 8/11/98 -0300, Alejandro F. Reimondo wrote: >why not to use an object in the method's literal frame ? > capable to retrieve the source and a hierarchy of > source retrievers to get source from a file, a string > in the image, a zip file or an HTTP server > >Ale. > > >

3 2

Ward's Wiki now on Squeak Swiki
by Mark Guzdial 12 Aug '98

12 Aug '98

Thanks to Bob Arning, Ward Cunningham's Squeak Wiki has now been converted and integrated into the Squeak Swiki at http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak Thanks, Bob! Mark -------------------------- Mark Guzdial : Georgia Tech : College of Computing : Atlanta, GA 30332-0280 (404) 894-5618 : Fax (404) 894-0673 : guzdial(a)cc.gatech.edu http://www.cc.gatech.edu/gvu/people/Faculty/Mark.Guzdial.html

1 0

Re: Size limit to changes
by Sam Adams 12 Aug '98

12 Aug '98

4b will be fine. In my ST80 porting efforts, I have often generated very large changes files. Filing in 2-3 megs of source several times will get you there quite fast. Also, some of my code generators for large model scaffold construction and window building can generate several 100K's a pop. But I think 32MB is a reasonable barrier. In my experience, once your changes get really large, its a good time to stop, reorganize and file out change sets, edit the build script, and build a new working image from a clean state. This approach also keeps you from ending up with the "Tektronix Troubleshooter" syndrome. Any of you old Tek's can tell the story better than I, but here goes. "Troubleshooter" was an amazing prototype built at Tektronix in the early 80's on the Tek Magnolia Workstation, which hosted Tek's implementation of Smalltalk-80. It was a prototype for a technician's assistant that would visually guide the tech through diagnosis and repair of a board via an embedded expert system. The problem was that much of it had been hand crafted into existence, with lots of "workspace code" used to build the objects and data. It was very difficult for the developers to move it to another image, and impossible for those who hadn't written the code. The moral of the story: regularly moving your Smalltalk applications to new images guarantees that you can move them at all. Regards, Sam Sam S. Adams, Distinguished Engineer, IBM Network Computing Software Division tie line 444-0736, outside 919-254-0736, email: ssadams(a)us.ibm.com <<Hebrews 11:6, Proverbs 3:5-6, Romans 1:16-17, I Corinthians 1:10>>

1 0

RE: Size limit to changes
by Alejandro F. Reimondo 12 Aug '98

12 Aug '98

why not to use an object in the method's literal frame ? capable to retrieve the source and a hierarchy of source retrievers to get source from a file, a string in the image, a zip file or an HTTP server Ale.

1 0

Size limit to changes
by Bob Arning 12 Aug '98

12 Aug '98

I don't remember if this has been mentioned: Since CompiledMethod stores the position of its source in three bytes, once the changes file (or sources) exceeds 16 meg, the CompiledMethod will no longer be able to recover its source. Cheers, Bob

3 2

Re: Size limit to changes
by Jeffrey Chapman 11 Aug '98

11 Aug '98

4b. sounds reasonable, although I can dream of projects where it might be a limitation. 4-byte source pointers might be preferable if there are no performance penalties or implementation issues. Performance, incidentally, has been simply stellar for me on modern hardware. The Squeak VM is approximately 1/10th the size of commercial Java VMs, and seems more robust in almost every way. 68K Squeak has been usably pokey. I'm still new to Smalltalk and to Squeak, but I can tell already that there will be no turning back for me. I simply cannot imagine returning to C, Java, and so on. Thanks for making this available. At last, there is a free, open, crossplatform programming environment that can actually be used.

1 0

Re: Size limit to changes
by Bob Arning 11 Aug '98

11 Aug '98

Dan, I think either 4a or 4b would be nice, but 5 would be even nicer. This is not a major problem for me, but I do like knowing that anything I ever wrote is in the changes file (even if it takes a while to find). My normally large-ish changes file quickly went over the limit when I started filing in the Refactoring Browser, tweaking the compiler and repeating. At over 400k a shot, it didn't take long. Cheers, Bob

1 0

Re: Problems building the Mac VM
by stp＠limbo.create.ucsb.edu 11 Aug '98

11 Aug '98

There are very explicit instructions on building Squeak VMs in the document on adding primitives. See "The Do-It-Yourself Guide to Squeak Primitives" http://www.create.ucsb.edu/squeak/DIYSqPrims.html or also in the Squeak on-line book at http://www.phaidros.com/DIGITALIS/englisch/sqk/sqk00002.htm stp _ Stephen Travis Pope _ Center for Research in Electronic Art Technology (CREATE) _ Dept. of Music, Univ. of California, Santa Barbara (UCSB) _ stp(a)create.ucsb.edu, http://www.create.ucsb.edu/~stp/

1 0

Re: Problems building the Mac VM
by Randal Schwartz 11 Aug '98

11 Aug '98

>>>>> "Jim" == Jim Benson <jb(a)speed.net> writes: Jim> On the Mac, a stuff-it file Jim> called 'projectArchive.sit' is generated. Unstuffing reveals two Jim> CodeWarrior 8 project files, Squeak68K.proj and SqueakPPC.proj. Wow, for a minute there I thought that Squeak was generating ".sit" files! But, the source reveals that it's merely writing a precomputed array from inside the source image. The Stuffing must have been done in some external operation. Got my hopes up for a second. There's a lot of other stuff in there: I thought stuffing was something new! -- Name: Randal L. Schwartz / Stonehenge Consulting Services (503)777-0095 Keywords: Perl training, UNIX[tm] consulting, video production, skiing, flying Email: <merlyn(a)stonehenge.com> Snail: (Call) PGP-Key: (finger merlyn(a)teleport.com) Web: <A HREF="http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/">My Home Page!</A> Quote: "I'm telling you, if I could have five lines in my .sig, I would!" -- me

1 0

Re: Size limit to changes
by Patrick Logan 11 Aug '98

11 Aug '98

My thoughts for performance and flexibility run towards cooperative multiprocessing among clusters of Squeak images on clusters of processors using a distributed Squeak ODB. Some sort of dynamic inter-image negotiated communications could enable the use of all the spare cycles floating around in all of the various computerized appliances we are surrounded with. "Hey microwave oven! Can you calculate the quadradic root of 5.639888 * 10^6 for me? I don't need it until next Wendsday. Ask the toaster for help if you need it." Have you seen Sun's "Jini" proposal? This is what Jini is supposed to provide, following the Linda tuple space model for communication. Kind of like a "blackboard" system in AI-speak. -- Patrick Logan mailto:patrickl@gemstone.com Voice 503-533-3365 Fax 503-629-8556 Gemstone Systems, Inc http://www.gemstone.com "There's something magical about demonstrating Newton's laws with lots of noise, fire, and smoke." -- Doug Pratt, on high-powered model rocketry.

1 0

Jump to page: