Squeak-dev June 2000

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134 participants
686 discussions

RE: ANSI draft in PDF format?
by Bijan Parsia 29 Jun '00

29 Jun '00

He's not asking for the spec, but for the *draft* spec which *is*, afaIoact, freely distributible. The draft spec contains, afaik, no omissions or alterations, but adds "rationales" at varoius places, making it an interesting document in its own right. Cheers, Bijan Parsia. On Wed, 28 Jun 2000, Eric Arseneau wrote: > I have a copy., but the problem is that I had to pay 15$ for it. So I'm not > sure it can or should be posted anywhere. If there is anything specific you > need you can ask. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lex Spoon [mailto:lex@cc.gatech.edu] > > Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 3:30 PM > > To: squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu > > Subject: ANSI draft in PDF format? > > > > > > Does anyone have a copy of the ANSI draft in PDF format? My copy is on > > the other end of the continent on a computer that's turned off :( > > > > Someone should post the PDF somewhere, and I'll try and find a place for > > it if I can. The so-called RTF version seems to only be usable from > > Microsoft Word, because the file has undocumented extensions in it. > > > > > > -Lex > > > > > >

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Re: Updates added to 2.9
by Bob Arning 29 Jun '00

29 Jun '00

On Thu, 29 Jun 2000 00:01:54 +0200 Stefan Matthias Aust <sma(a)3plus4.de> wrote: >>May I suggest that some of the fixes that have been added to 2.9 be issued >>as part of 2.8 instead? This especially goes for some bug fixes. I've >>compiled a few candidates for such 'promotion'. > >I'd agree. I actually wrote the changes which Henrik mentioned for >2.8. The current procedure is that I'll compile and submit changes based >on 2.9a; the SqC will then decide which one will also go in the 2.8 stream. It would probably take a bit of the load off SqC if people more regularly indicated which release(s) they know their change is good for. Cheers, Bob

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Re: Morphic thoughts and Questions
by Bob Arning 29 Jun '00

29 Jun '00

On Thu, 29 Jun 2000 00:10:55 +0200 Stefan Matthias Aust <sma(a)3plus4.de> wrote: >>Hands actually are owned by the world > >Oh, I could swear that this was different in the past. But it makes sense. The tricky part to remember here is the while the owner of the hand is the world, the hand is *not* in the world's submorph collection. It's in the hands collection in the world's worldState. This is the only exception I can think of where the submorph<->owner invariant does not hold. Cheers, Bob

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Re: External Events/DSO Open Source Offering
by Stephan Rudlof 29 Jun '00

29 Jun '00

David, "David L. Caster" wrote: > > Addressees: > > Ok, I'm the culprit. I put WAY too much material in that > first TGZ. Perhaps before this gets too far out of hand, I > had better trim-down or perhaps split what was put up for > downloading. > > I guess I didn't expect there to be such immediate interest > in the material offered--boy, was I wrong. > > Anyway, I'll trim the archive down to the really useful > stuff over the next day or two. If you have something > specific that you need, let me know now because I can't > promise to have a lot of attention to pay to this after the > end of the week. > > David L. Caster It's difficult for me to say what I'm interested in, because I haven't seen your stuff... The motivation to look onto it has come from the - currently vague idea - to switch Morphic (and possibly MVC) from polling to real events. And your work seems to go into this direction, isn't it? Greetings, Stephan -- Stephan Rudlof (sr(a)evolgo.de) "Genius doesn't work on an assembly line basis. You can't simply say, 'Today I will be brilliant.'" -- Kirk, "The Ultimate Computer", stardate 4731.3

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Re: Ship it with Squeak
by Alan Kay 29 Jun '00

29 Jun '00

Marcel -- At 12:32 PM +0200 6/27/00, Marcel Weiher wrote: > > From: Alan Kay <Alan.Kay(a)disney.com> >> >> Just a suggestion ... >> >> Forget about the Mac or the PC, and concentrate on an Internet >> Interface. These have to be universal, and the current (mostly) html >> ones are pretty rudimentary. This is fresh ground for new ideas. Most >> of the next billion machines are not going to be either Macs or PCs >> ..... but will certainly be connected to Internet. > >I am not sure how this helps. Either you have xml/html/style >interfaces and rely on the 'universal client'. This is an >interesting area because it allows mixing of documents and multiple >presentations of an underlying data-source. However, forget about >morphic. Interaction, if possible at all, will only be through >standardized mechanisms such as event/scripting enabled SVG/XHTML, >which essentially means JavaScript. > >The other option is downloading your own client and executing there. > Apart from the fact that I don't necessarily find this desirable, >you will have the same problem as before, that each platform will >have local interface conventions that you need to follow if you are >executing locally. > >What am I missing? Well, Squeak is a client for its own media -- and this is what I'm most interested in -- you may have noticed that we can now "publish" whole projects, which can serve as a more active and media basis for representing ideas than simplistic html pages. We will release a bunch of these by the end of the summer. I think Squeak is a little more powerful than JavaScript ... Also, Squeak always has "authoring turned on" so it opens vistas of "SuperSwikis" of active media that can be added to, etc. ... and there are a variety of ways to deal with the existing web conventions. I think the basic difference in point of view is that I don't see the existing OS's and web as being anything more than bad defacto standards that positively invite us to produce better alternatives ... I certainly don't see them as anything that has to be catered to ... Cheers, Alan

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Canvas is-an Encoder?
by Lex Spoon 29 Jun '00

29 Jun '00

Why is Canvas a subclass of NullEncoder and FlattenEncoder, lately? It seems to be something added to make the Postscript support work, but the solution seems kinda strang--Encoding and drawing really seem like separate issues to me. For example, should the same class implement drawCircle: and initWithTarget:? fillRectangle: and writeObject: ? With multiple inheritance, it would seem reasonalbe to have PostScriptCanvas be a subclass of both Canvas and Encoder. But as things are, making Canvas a subclass of Encoder just for Postscript's sake seems strange. Why not just have an 'encoder' instance variable in PostscriptCanvas? -Lex

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Re: Ship it with Squeak (Fonts)
by Henrik Gedenryd 29 Jun '00

29 Jun '00

> I understand what you are saying. Still, out of caution, I think the > existing fonts should go just to comply with what Apple might want to > interpret. Sad though -- we're going through extra work and worry just > to make a cross-platform system that makes the Mac platform more > valuable as Squeak levels the playing field due to Apple legal > worries... A method like "Smalltalk purgeAppleFonts" would be good. The > things is, I don't even know which are the Apple fonts and which aren't. It is (only) New York, which is unfortunately the standard one. The other one, Comic Sans, is MS. > Also, I think using MS fonts is asking for trouble no matter what the > license. I guess I agree. But note that there already is one in there. Although there's a free license in their one hand, you never know what's in the other hand behind their back. > So, you're saying FreeType > http://www.freetype.org/ > can be used to create bitmaps that are freely useable? > Still has to be done though. My plugin does that. There are some samples of such bitmaps in the same directory. Morphic vs. MVC is not really a problem--these are spiced up StrikeFonts with deeper bit maps. > Maybe we can just find the 1% of PD fonts that look nice? Of course, > even if you find them you can't always be 100% sure of their true > pedigree or whether the might violate someone's style patent or > trademark or such. Duh, I've _really_ tried, and I think I have most of it. None is a really good, and I thought it would go best along with the other type improvements. But look out for something related in a few days. > Sounds like the patent issue makes it a non-starter for me until as you > say a non-patented version become available... I'm at my IP limit > deciding if distributing an IP product produced using unlicensed patents > but not containing them is an IP violation. It certainly is a violation > in the US for the one doing the converting where the infringement takes > place. I wouldn't take the risk. Obviously, people in Europe can do so > without worries. Whether I should then use the result is another story. > If you are in a hurry, I could give you a newer version which also supports PostScript outline fonts--this doesn't violate the patents as they apply to TrueType only. I haven't released this yet as there are some other issues that stand to be remedied as well, and the FT2 release is supposedly just around the corner--well you know what that means :) :( Henrik

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Re: [FIX] TheWorldMenu>>newMorph
by Bob Arning 29 Jun '00

29 Jun '00

Thanks Bolot, On Wed, 28 Jun 2000 15:56:36 -0400 Bolot Kerimbaev <bolot(a)cc.gatech.edu> wrote: >Fixes TheWorldMenu>>newMorph to send some messages to myHand >(currently, it sends it to self, but TWM doesn't implement them). Alan hit a few of these and some others yesterday and I have fixes in my next set of updates. >Disclaimer: >There are probably a few more places where such change may be >necessary. Quite probably. >Besides, it may be a design intention to move menu methods from >HandMorph to TheWorldMenu. It is, but I took a break from my moving chores once the big ones were done and once the menus started looking more like hand things and less like world things. Cheers, Bob

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Re: Ship it with Squeak (fonts)
by Stefan Matthias Aust 29 Jun '00

29 Jun '00

At 07:45 26.06.00 -0400, Paul Fernhout wrote: >Any hope of making these X11 fonts part of the standard 2.8 release and >completely replacing the Apple fonts? Not for 2.8 as it's feature-frozen (I hope). There might be a change for 2.9 - I can't decide this. I know however that SqC already mentioned that they're looking for some way to replace the apple fonts. BTW, as I understand the license of Microsoft's core web fonts (Arial, Verdana, etc) which are freely available, you're not even allowed to supply the bitmap. You could however let every user generate automatically his own strike font from the installed fonts and request the user to install these fonts. As truetype fonts are kind of standard and should work on Mac/Unix (at least with a decent font server)/Windows, a few FFI calls per platform might be enough. This would be the way I'd go. On platforms which natively support TTF (Mac/Windows), there're absolutely no problems by using that support. If the Linux user wants to use freetype to have a ttf font server isn't my problem. bye -- Stefan Matthias Aust // Bevor wir fallen, fallen wir lieber auf

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Re: Updates added to 2.9
by Stefan Matthias Aust 29 Jun '00

29 Jun '00

At 15:08 27.06.00 +0200, Henrik Gedenryd wrote: >May I suggest that some of the fixes that have been added to 2.9 be issued >as part of 2.8 instead? This especially goes for some bug fixes. I've >compiled a few candidates for such 'promotion'. I'd agree. I actually wrote the changes which Henrik mentioned for 2.8. The current procedure is that I'll compile and submit changes based on 2.9a; the SqC will then decide which one will also go in the 2.8 stream. >Personally, I am on purpose not proceeding to 2.9, as I thought it would be >a good idea for 2.8 to get some testing before it is finalized. If I should guess, I'd say it's more likely that a stable 2.9 will be created than a stable 2.8 ;-) But Dan could proof me wrong easily. bye -- Stefan Matthias Aust // Bevor wir fallen, fallen wir lieber auf

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