Squeak-dev July 2000

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121 participants
566 discussions

Squeak list reveals email address to spammers
by Ted K. 29 Jul '00

29 Jul '00

Folks, I have recently begun to get spam at my private email address at Disney. I got on the web and searched for my address, and found it in the Squeak mail archives at UIUC. Could we mark the Squeak list archives so that search engines won't index them? (But, of course, being able to search them from any big search engine is useful. It also brings in new people who find our interesting discussions that way.) Could we strip put people's exact email address in the public archive? For us on the list, all emails would still have addresses. --Ted. Ted Kaehler, Walt Disney Imagineering, R&D (home) 3415 Cork Oak Way, Palo Alto, CA 94303. voice (650) 424-1070 http://www.webPage.com/~kaehler2/ See exactly what your web browser reveals about your identity http://www.junkbusters.com/cgi-bin/privacy

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Re: [GOODIE] Squeak as Web Browser Plugin
by John M McIntosh 29 Jul '00

29 Jul '00

on 7/28/00 8:06 PM, Michael Rueger at m.rueger(a)acm.org wrote: > > Hi all, > > here you can find the current state of the web browser plugin art: > > http://ifsl.mb.uni-magdeburg.de/~michael/plugin/plugin.htm > > The sad thing though is that currently only the windows version is fully > functional. > The linux version of the plugin works, but the browser primitives in the > linux VM fail. If some kind soul would like to have a look at this? :-) > > The Mac version should follow pretty soon, there is actually a fully > functional plugin, but it is slightly incompatible to the ones above > (e.g. different mime type). > Hi, I should point out that I've the sqMacNSPlugin.c part of Squeak in small pieces all over my desktop right now and I am adding full screen support for macintosh browsers, ie the ability to have squeak go to full screen from a browser window. This doesn't seem to conflict with what you are doing. Hopefully next week I'll be able to roll out a version for everyone to try. -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> 1-800-477-2659 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com =========================================================================== Custom Macintosh programming & various Smalltalk dialects PGP Key: DSS/Diff/46FC3BE6 Fingerprint=B22F 7D67 92B7 5D52 72D7 E94A EE69 2D21 46FC 3BE6 ===========================================================================

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Re: [GOODIE] Squeak as Web Browser Plugin
by aaron 29 Jul '00

29 Jul '00

> place for keeping the keys? But then somebody would have to maintain > these... Any suggestions welcome. I was just thinking about Squeak as a plugin, and recalled that the last time I'd seen a Squeak plug in, it just assosiated the extension .image with the Squeak VM. I had a look at your progress here, and I'm happy to see it doesn't just do that, but loads Smalltalk code- the mechanism for doing that looks like it's better than a file-in. Not being one familar with what are usually thought of to be Java's weaknesses in an applet environment, perhaps we should do our best to avoid these pitfalls. I often hear security is a problem, and it's good to see the signature work. In short- looks good! Aaron ----- "Steve Jobs said two years ago that X is brain-damaged and it will be gone in two years. He was half right." -- Dennis Ritchie ________________________________________________________ 1stUp.com - Free the Web Get your free Internet access at http://www.1stUp.com

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Re: [Questions]Events
by Tim Rowledge 29 Jul '00

29 Jul '00

In message <39789AA4.9BCF7727(a)chello.se> you wrote: > I'm making some morphic stuff and use mouseEnter/mouseLeave events. > But the morphs seem to miss about one out of five > of the events.:-( > > Is this something Tim's event VM/image stuff will fix > or is my machine to slow or whats the deal? I hope so, or it was all in vain! My stuff queues mouse stuff as well as keyboard stuff ( and once we have got it well worked out and in use there is no reason not to handle some of the other events of interest as well) so that you should not miss button presses. > > By the way, I'v used the events change set from Tim for a day and > can't notice any bad behavior yet. (I on a mac) Good - you shouldn't notice anything at all without an updated VM and very little with one, until various explicitly-polling code is updated. Then you should only notice that mouse button presses are not missing anymore. > > Is the event stuff comming to the mac VM ? I hope to get to spoendan hour or so looking into it this weekend, byt if it takes longer than that I'll have to ask for a volunteer. So much to do, so little time... tim -- Tim Rowledge, tim(a)sumeru.stanford.edu, http://sumeru.stanford.edu/tim Useful random insult:- Kept an open mind -- and his brains fell out.

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Re: tuple spaces
by Rob Withers 29 Jul '00

29 Jul '00

Clay Karmel wrote: > > Hey Rob, > > What's the difference between tuple spaces and a relational database > (Particularly one with stored procedures)? > > It may seem a non-sequiter, but database people refer to their schema in > terms of tuples. > > Or else I'm just confused. It's happened before. > > Clay Clay, I forwarded this to the list so we can all benefit from discussion in this area. I do hope you don't mind. As far as I know, and correct me if so, a database engine has 1) a storage mechanism, 2) a transactional mechanism with mementos, 3) a naming mechanism to label things, and 4) a query mechanism to do set operations. Entries in formal relational theory is set based and tuples are the ordered sequential entities which are acted upon. This is probably very close in theory to Linda, although there are differences. Linda isn't necesarily hierarchical in it's organization principle; the right abstraction is that tuples are ordered, sequential entities you can store in sets. Furthermore, they are stored in operational states. The current primitive operations are write, read, take, scan, and eval. There is an optimization to partition the tuples into arity categories. It is mutex protected and forks processes for eval and is blocking, or not, on query operations. This is enough to support 2). It also has a matching algorithm, whenever an operation occurs. This means that whenever a write occurs, Linda checks for blocking reads and takes, and unblocks them if there is a match. Also, when a read, take, or scan occurs there is matching against the existing writen tuples. This matching algoritm is quite interesting as it does associative matching. Thus, instead of naming things, it is actually doing either a value comparison, or a type comparison (type ~ value or type ~ type), or it executes a filter block so you can supply your own assoiativity algorithm. Finally a field may be an eval field, thus Linda would execute the block asynchronously, and replace the block with its return value in the tuple. This is enough to support capability 4) above. Capability 3) is kind of intrinsic to the associativity matching. You could store named fields and do queries based on that property and thus, you could implement a relational database in Linda. One thing missing at the moment, aside from performance considerations, is a storage mechanism #1. Pointrel looks kinda interesting for this, although I haven't dug too deeply. Rob PS, I wouldn't mind seeing this go into core squeak if it were to be deemed stable enough. It isn't very big and it would be very nice as a service manager. Again that performance thing. -- -------------------------------------------------- Smalltalking by choice. Isn't it nice to have one!

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Re: [BUG][Events] processor time wasted
by Tim Rowledge 28 Jul '00

28 Jul '00

So the 'waste' time is high with change sorters but not browsers? Now that's pretty wierd. Does anyone have any idea what change sorters might be doing that is so different to browsers? Is this MVC-land or Morphic-land Stephan? tim -- Tim Rowledge, tim(a)sumeru.stanford.edu, http://sumeru.stanford.edu/tim God made machine language; she left all the rest to the work of man.

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Re: Compiler, was Re: Block closures
by Mats Nygren 28 Jul '00

28 Jul '00

Lex, "Lex Spoon" <lex(a)cc.gatech.edu> wrote: > [snip] > Another starting point might be the refactoring- > browser's parser. [snip] Since the RB seems to be a useful thing to have anyway thats reasonable. But its no big deal, one can always remap the parse-trees to connect to RB. Give me/us a good reference for the RB-stuff. In particular where is the code for the parser you mentioned? > But anyway, what would people really like out of a parser? [snip] > > 1. A clear parse-tree structure and symbol table. [snip] > 2. Ability to generate parse trees from code, not just Smalltalk code. [snip] > 3. Ability to execute statements straight out of a parse tree. [snip] > 4. Ability to make simple pattern-based modifications to a parse tree. [snip] > 5. Ability to clone a parse tree into a different format. [snip] > > -Lex The five commandments! What do I want? 6. (Perhaps implicit in 5) Generate texts in diverse syntaxes, pretty printing, C-code generation, Python, PostScript, Jam, .. 7. Generate parse trees from diverse syntaxes. 8. Syntax-related editing. The RB and some of my own stuff, to be ported. 9. Graphical versions of programs (= interpretations of syntax trees) 10. Advanced highquality "pretty printing" like TeX 11. Easy connection to Morphic, a Morph is another tree. Compare (8) and (9) 12. Functional reduction semantics done on the parse tree direct. Compare (3) and (4) 13. A package of useful elegant general purpose tools for operating on trees. In particular Visitor-related things. A parse tree should represent a program text with all details of linear representation abstracted, and no other information added. However many want to put in more material like symbol tables, source code positions, comments, code generation details, reference to other parse-trees, ... For me I want them to be completely without extra information and then make homomorphic maps (Visitors). Your 3..5 above fits into this. However this gets me into trouble sometimes, so I have the following concrete proposal for parse trees: 1 Let each parse node have information that is of syntactic nature only. 2 but have en extension field as in Morph This is a compromise: - purists can live with a nil extension field that is never used. (In particular since sometimes it *is* used!) - people who like to have information conveniently reachable from parse-nodes can live with the extra indirection (in particular since sometimes the information isn't entered) This covers 1 .. 13 above. Compare this with my other post today, "Morphic factoring". I think we have something here! I have to go and will be away a few days. Have a nice weekend. /Mats <ps> Thanks for all the feedback on block closures, I'll get back on this </ps>

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Re: [GOODIE] iScream - Audio Chat
by Michael Rueger 28 Jul '00

28 Jul '00

Mark Guzdial wrote: > some of you might be interested in. Jonathan and Brian just finished > an Audio Chat tool that's working well between Macs and NTs in our Cool! > lab. They've added buddy lists this summer (maintained on a server, When will the buddy list and the server be available? I'm willing to try an early version :-) > though the audio connection is peer-to-peer). Their code (and > updating docs) can be found at: http://coweb.cc.gatech.edu/csl/25 At least the class ObjectSocket is missing. Where do I get it from? Thanks for all the cool ideas you and your students are coming up with! Michael -- "To improve is to change, to be perfect is to change often." Winston Churchill +------------------------------------------------------------+ | Michael Rueger m.rueger(a)acm.org ++1 (310) 937 7196 | +------------------------------------------------------------+

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Perodiluvia
by Torsten.Bergmann＠phaidros.com 28 Jul '00

28 Jul '00

I've found this at Sourceforge http://sourceforge.net/project/?group_id=1885 Could you anyone tell us a little bit about it ? Luciano ? Thanks Torsten

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Morphic factoring
by Mats Nygren 28 Jul '00

28 Jul '00

Hi, I have looked a little at Morphic and have a concrete proposal for factoring: OpenObject (extension) OpenSimpleTree (submorphs) OpenTree (owner) Geometer (bounds fullBounds) Morph (color) And move the code up as far as possible. The particular names and other details can be discussed of course. If this gets used the names 'submorphs' and 'owner' should be reconsidered in its new context. Then some Morph-functionality will be available to other uses. And whatever is invented and added to these classes from other uses will potentially benefit Morph. For example on may come up with a scheme for inheriting attributes between OpenObjects (much like the class hierarchy which can be put in this form if wanted). And if Model-protocol is added to OpenObject (it should be) then Morphs immediately get this. The copying, traversing and other abstract things that is used in morphic is very useful indeed for other purposes, this will extend the Collection traversals in useful ways. I would add a general tree/dag/graph- Visitor to this making several operations irresistably elegant. IM(H;-)O. And the Morphic hackers will be invited to separate their concerns a little so that these abstract structural things doesn't have any morph-specific material in it. OpenObject (or OpenModel, it can easily include the Model protocol with the extension-field 'dependents') are very useful for many purposes. Examples: Parse trees, Python-like objects. The extension should not be to closely associated with Dictionary, other possibility exist, in particular a sequence of Dicitionaries like in the Class hierarchy. I have considered making a special version of the compiler for methods in OpenObject-subclasses then code could deal with extended fiels with the same syntax as ordinary field, as in Python. OpenSimpleTree works (for reading purposes) like a list in lisp with a builtin property list, very useful. OpenTree has the property that a reference to any node can get the whole tree, good for editors. I have made a tree editor that I will port to Squeak and the present organization will work wonders for that. I'm busy with other things now but sooner or later it will happen. Geometer is meant to be something that knows about its place in some geometry (2 or 3 dimensional Euclidean at present). But it does not know about colors and other appearance-related things. This makes sense since several operations are independent of appearance. And then finally we have Morph a (OpenTree-) Geometer that knows its appearance. The Open<X> should be moved out of the Morph-category altogether. When I tried this out some problems with deepCopier (or something) arose. Compare this with my other post today about replying Lex Spoon on "Re: Compiler, was Re: Block closures". I have to go now, more on this later. Have a nice weekend. /Mats

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