Squeak-dev February 2001

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144 participants
725 discussions

RE: [Win32] VM update (release build 2)
by Baveco, Hans 26 Feb '01

26 Feb '01

Hi, thanks for the new VM, it solves the problem of the VM locking up (on NT), but does not remove all the sound problems completely ;-) After playing one sound, Squeak refuses to play another The output console appears with the message: "The specified device is already in use. Wait until it is free, and then try again." It looks like I should wait forever...., is there anything that can be done to close the soundplayer properly? In Squeak code? Hans > Folks, > > I've just uploaded release build 2 in the appropriate places. This build > fixes the issue of NT sound (a big THANKS to Jon Anderson who helped me > patiently while tracking down this issue) and it also removes the CAPSLOCK > key as a shift modifier for mouse operations. As usual, all of it can be > found at > > http://isgwww.cs.uni-magdeburg.de/~raab/squeak/SqueakExe.zip [VM only] > http://isgwww.cs.uni-magdeburg.de/~raab/squeak/Squeak.zip [VM+image] > http://isgwww.cs.uni-magdeburg.de/~raab/squeak/src/Squeak3.0Build2Src.zip > [VM sources] > > Enjoy, > - Andreas

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[ENH] Cursors for resizing in Morphic
by Jesse Welton 26 Feb '01

26 Feb '01

The yellow resize handles in Morphic don't give a particularly polished look to the UI. Here's an enhancement which replaces them with cursor changes, as in MVC. (The resize handles themselves are still there; they're just invisible.) Because this is accomplished by changing the hardware cursor, it is not multi-hand aware; so a preference is included to turn the behavior on and off. -Jesse

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RE: [Win32][VM] CreateThread() failures
by Raab, Andreas 26 Feb '01

26 Feb '01

> This happened when there were 58 threads for Squeak (out of total 413 > threads for the whole system). Yup. That matches my experience. You can create approx. 30 sockets concurrently (depends on actual memory conditions) and then it's over. With the change that I just made (reducing the default stack size from 32MB to 128k) it's now up to roughly 300 sockets (e.g., 600 threads). In a "clean" system (freshly booted - there seem to be some long-term implications when running other apps but that is likely to be an issue on 95/98) I even got reliably ~700 sockets (1400 threads) running concurrently. Cheers, - Andreas

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Re: Plugin Installers
by Karl Ramberg 26 Feb '01

26 Feb '01

Michael Rueger wrote: > > Hi all, > > I built a couple of web pages that should make it easier to install the > Squeak Plugin for Mac and Win. This is great, thanks :-) I looked into this a while back and got really frustrated with all the issues involved. Good you went all the way. > http://www.squeaklet.com/NPSqueak/download.htm > > You need Javascript enabled for most of the functionality (auto detect > etc.). You do need to restart the browser after the installation (part > of the test though). Worked on Swedish mac os 8.6 and Communicator 4.74 The easy install did not locate my browser. Is it set to IE as default ? But hen I choosed custom install and netscape it worked just fine :-) > Look here > http://www.squeaklet.com/NPSqueak/plugin/supported.html > for current state of testing and support. > > Please make sure you don't have an old plugin installed, I'm working on > this issue to give the option to first remove an old installation. > > The installers for mac and win include the Squeak 3.0 version. The sad part is that the plugin does not work. I don't know why yet. One issue is that all mouse events also sends mousedown, ie the world menu comes up when I move the mouse around. The other issue is loading stuff like .sts and .pr files. This gives walkbacks. Karl > > Michael > > -- > "To improve is to change, to be perfect is to change often." > Winston Churchill > +------------------------------------------------------------+ > | Michael Rueger m.rueger(a)acm.org ++1 (310) 937 7196 | > +------------------------------------------------------------+

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RE: RE: [BUG] Low Space problem in 3.0 (and 3.1.3696)
by Raab, Andreas 26 Feb '01

26 Feb '01

Bob, > I seem to remember some years ago using Smalltalk VSE on NT. > Smalltalk garbageCollect or its equivalent reported some > *really* large number, either gigabytes or 100's of megabytes > (on a machine with 32 meg of real memory). Yes, that's one of the problems. One has to consider that memory is a dynamic resource and may therefore change at every time. However, one might argue that there are two pieces of information that (if made accessible) could help determining what's going on. One is the amount of physical memory (both, max and free) and the other one is the amount of swap space (both, max and free). These numbers are basically 'hints' about the amount of memory that can be allocated quickly and the amount of memory that can be allocated but may take a while. > When something > started using too much memory, the closest indication one got > was pronounced sluggishness and, if you listened closely, a > disk drive earning its paycheck. There's an interesting question about how much of this would relate to a system like Squeak. If you think about say Alan's demo images then you almost always have a relatively small working set. It's basically the current project plus a few megs of code which keeps heavy swapping basically limited to project switches or full GCs (these *would* hurt). > I spent two years working in > that environment and never got over the hopeless feeling of > not knowing how much memory I had been allocated and how much > was left. Well, 32MB in NT "back then" was certainly not a lot but I've done it myself (using VW2.5) and in a way I had never the feeling that it was unbearable. Certainly better than trying to run Squeak on anything alike in which case you couldn't even start without eating up all physical memory and a good deal of swap space. Cheers, - Andreas

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RE: [BUG] Low Space problem in 3.0 (and 3.1.3696)
by Richard A. O'Keefe 26 Feb '01

26 Feb '01

Does that have anything to do with the fact that whenever I tried to use Netscape on Freya this morning it would say that the remote server was refusing the connection?

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RE: [BUG] Low Space problem in 3.0 (and 3.1.3696)
by Raab, Andreas 26 Feb '01

26 Feb '01

> What would be involved in adding a way to allow Squeak to > request (and use) more memory from the host OS? You'd have to make sure that it's either a continuous extension of the block already allocated or that GC can work with 'holes' in the object memory. Making it a continuous block of memory is actually not that hard given that the OS has some means of reserving (but not committing) virtual memory. Trivial on Win32 and I think on most Unixes (equipped with mmap()) and probably on MacOS/X as well. However, that's not quite the entire story. You have to keep in mind that at some point you could a) run out of swap space (which is a Very Bad Thing if it really happens) and b) that an infinite loop would keep allocating huge amounts of memory. As it is, you get a low space warning when you hit the boundary and the low space warning is a useful thing to have. [Hm ... makes me wonder how the commercial ST versions deal with that problem. Anyone dare to comment?!] Cheers, - Andreas

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Re: RE: [BUG] Low Space problem in 3.0 (and 3.1.3696)
by Bob Arning 26 Feb '01

26 Feb '01

On Sun, 25 Feb 2001 14:34:38 -0800 "Raab, Andreas" <Andreas.Raab(a)disney.com> wrote: >However, that's not quite the entire story. You have to keep in mind that at >some point you could a) run out of swap space (which is a Very Bad Thing if >it really happens) and b) that an infinite loop would keep allocating huge >amounts of memory. As it is, you get a low space warning when you hit the >boundary and the low space warning is a useful thing to have. > >[Hm ... makes me wonder how the commercial ST versions deal with that >problem. Anyone dare to comment?!] I seem to remember some years ago using Smalltalk VSE on NT. Smalltalk garbageCollect or its equivalent reported some *really* large number, either gigabytes or 100's of megabytes (on a machine with 32 meg of real memory). When something started using too much memory, the closest indication one got was pronounced sluggishness and, if you listened closely, a disk drive earning its paycheck. I spent two years working in that environment and never got over the hopeless feeling of not knowing how much memory I had been allocated and how much was left. Cheers, Bob

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Re: [BUG] Low Space problem in 3.0 (and 3.1.3696)
by Bob Arning 25 Feb '01

25 Feb '01

All, It is perhaps regrettable that we do not have better error handling when low space happens, but as it could happen just about anywhere, it may be a difficult problem to deal with neatly. One item of note: loading and publishing projects does have significant memory requirements as there is often the project in question, a version of it more amenable to streaming (requiring often more space than the project itself) and other overhead involved in converting from one to another. My advice is simply to increase the memory allocated to Squeak as a way around this. Cheers, Bob On Sat, 24 Feb 2001 17:42:24 -0500 "Phiho Hoang" <phiho.hoang(a)home.com> wrote: > My 'LowSpace' happened when 3,693,052 bytes were available. > > This happened when I was trying to load 'Dixie Bears.004.pr' from Bobs >SuperSwiki and was reported via Celeste from the Debugger. I am not sure if >I got the report sent (it was my first time to use Celeste).

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Re: Plugin Installers
by merlyn＠stonehenge.com 25 Feb '01

25 Feb '01

>>>>> "Randal" == Randal L Schwartz <merlyn(a)stonehenge.com> writes: >>>>> "Michael" == Michael Rueger <m.rueger(a)acm.org> writes: Michael> Hi all, Michael> I built a couple of web pages that should make it easier to install the Michael> Squeak Plugin for Mac and Win. Michael> http://www.squeaklet.com/NPSqueak/download.htm Michael> You need Javascript enabled for most of the functionality (auto detect Michael> etc.). You do need to restart the browser after the installation (part Michael> of the test though). Michael> Look here Michael> http://www.squeaklet.com/NPSqueak/plugin/supported.html Michael> for current state of testing and support. Randal> Doesn't work for iCab Pre2.4 on the Mac. I get Randal> Your browser either does not support Javascript or it is disabled. Randal> To manually check if you have the Squeak Plugin installed go here. Randal> And when I click on the "here" (aside: please fix this... it's really Randal> bad style to use "click here" or "go here"), I get a loading applet, Randal> but a DNU-ish error: Randal> Undefined object "nothing more expected ->< Randal> I have what I thought was the 3.0 final VM and plugin image installed. And the "javascript YES/NO" images (I think that's what they are, since I can't see them) don't come up either. Also fails miserably on Netscape 6.0. The iCab failure may be due to having the 3.0 plugin with the old 2.8 image... and I'd be happy to install them manually, but I couldn't find the actual download paths behind all that broken Javascript from the URL above. Please provide ordinary links as well, so the spiders can find the page, and so that people who routinely disable Javascript (more and more these days) can also get to the download. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 <merlyn(a)stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/> Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

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