Squeak-dev January 2002

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176 participants
612 discussions

Re: Squeak practical use?We run the equity markets through it!
by Richard A. O'Keefe 31 Jan '02

31 Jan '02

From squeak-dev-admin(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org Tue Jan 29 22:06:18 2002 Delivered-To: mailman-squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org To: squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org Path: not-for-mail From: cg(a)home.cdegroot.com (Cees de Groot) Newsgroups: lists.squeak Subject: Re: Squeak practical use?We run the equity markets through it! Organization: cdegroot.com Lines: 27 References: <KIEPINLHGIEALPPHHADCEEOHGEAE.mark(a)vibrant3d.com> Sender: squeak-dev-admin(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org Errors-To: squeak-dev-admin(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org X-BeenThere: squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org X-Reply-To: cg(a)cdegroot.com List-Help: <mailto:squeak-dev-request@lists.squeakfoundation.org?subject=help> List-Post: <mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeak-dev>, <mailto:squeak-dev-request@lists.squeakfoundation.org?subject=subscribe> List-Id: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <squeak-dev.lists.squeakfoundation.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeak-dev>, <mailto:squeak-dev-request@lists.squeakfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/> Date: 29 Jan 2002 09:56:42 +0100 Someone wrote: >No one language does all things well, and it is >true Smalltalk does iteration particularly badly. >But so does Java when you get right down to it. I wonder if this is a case of someone not realising that the C++ STL "input iterators" and "output iterators" have good analogues in Smalltalk: ReadStreams and WriteStreams respectively. It really boils down to "Smalltalk DOESN'T do iteration, WE do." It's an open system. If there's a better way to iterate than the usual collection methods and/or streams, let's find out what it is and add it.

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Refactoring Browser
by Eric Dorman 31 Jan '02

31 Jan '02

Hello, I have been trying to use the Refactoring Browser v12 on squeak.heeg.de, rather unsuccessfully. Pushing down a method works the first time, but subsequent push downs/ups generate a walkback: RBParser>>parsePrimitiveObject: Error: Variable expected This appears since the variable currentToken is RBKeywordToken('msg:') ...rather than something else. Beats me what that means in the context of RB; RB is a bit much for me to grok right now.. Perhaps I'm forgetting something? Maybe it doesn't work on this image? My image is a clean 3.3a-4653 and the VM is 3.1a-4164, compiled with gcc-2.95.3 on FreeBSD-4.5PRE. I create an empty class from Object, create a subclass therein, create a method in the superclass, and push, then push back. Thanks, Eric Dorman Space and Naval Warfare Systems Center, San Diego (SPAWARSYSCEN-SD) dormane(a)spawar.navy.mil

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[FIX] updates for 64bit file io (64 bit conversions)
by johnmci＠smalltalkconsulting.com 31 Jan '02

31 Jan '02

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UnitTest-Bar never get green
by leeb＠anecon.com 31 Jan '02

31 Jan '02

It is very good to have tests for our UnitTests framework but I expect a green bar if I press RUN ALL unless a failure or an error appears someplace. The 2 tests (testFailureDebugUI and testDebugUI) which let the bar never get green, however, are there. Could we deactivate those two tests in the main distribution (Makes more fun to write UnitTests for Squeak)? keep squeaking Gerald.

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Re: Impacts of the squeak garbage collector
by Ken Kahn 31 Jan '02

31 Jan '02

Tim Rowledge wrote: > That was once a serious suggestion in a paper I read; the suggestion was > that virtual memory solved the problem since all you had to do was page > out garbage. Slight problem with the (then extant) data rates & disk > sizes - Smalltalk would have filled the disk in a few minutes :-) > > It might take a little longer these days, but still not long enough to > be interesting, I think. > You are probably talking about Jon L. White. Address/memory management for a gigantic Lisp environment or, GC considered harmful. In Proceedings of the ACM Symposium on Lisp and Functional Programming (Stanford, California, August 1980), ACM, pp. 119--127. As I remember JonL didn't fill up disks since seldom accessed memory went "off-line" onto backup tapes. Best, -ken kahn ( www.toontalk.com )

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[Q] mixin pattern - how to use an alternate Behavior for Class
by Rob Withers 31 Jan '02

31 Jan '02

I am trying to create a mixin class which compiles it's methods 'in' the scope of a different class. One way to go would be to have class side #compile methods which switches the class used to compile the method in. I would need a classVariable to hold this contextClass and off we go. An alternative mechanism that I am exploring, is to have a different subclass of ClassDescription (or Class), which has an instance method contextClass, and the compile methods are overridden on the instance side of this MixinClass. So I have a MixinClass, which has roughly identical protocol to Class and I am now adding a set of methods to ClassBuilder to create this class (instance of MixinClass). The problem is that I am not sure what to set the superclass of the Metaclass instance too. (1b) If I leave it alone, my class is an instance of Class. (1a) If I force it to MixinClass, then my class is an instance of MixinClass and my instance methods are ok, but the class-side confuses me a little - I have broken the metaclass superclass inheritence. Do I really need to have a MixinProtoObject to root everything with MixinClass class as the first metaclass superclass, or can I stitch myself into a different point in the hierarchy and still have my class be an instance of MixinClass, rather than Class, but maintain the correct metaclass inheritence? I believe it all relies on the implementation of 'meta new', especially with Interpreter>>formatOfClass: aClass, where aClass is a metaclass instance. Cheers, Rob 1a) meta _ Metaclass new. meta superclass: MixinClass methodDictionary: MethodDictionary new format: MixinClass format. newClass _ meta new. 1b) meta _ Metaclass new. meta superclass: newSuper class methodDictionary: MethodDictionary new format: MixinClass format. newClass _ meta new. 2) newClass superclass: newSuper methodDictionary: MethodDictionary new format: newFormat; contextClass: aContextClass; setInstVarNames: instVars; organization: nil. ^newClass

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Iteration Speed, Collections, and speed
by Mark Mullin 31 Jan '02

31 Jan '02

OK, I've gone and put my foot in it, I make one or two little comments about iterators and people just jump all over my case :-) What I mean to say is that for iterated collections such as ordered collection, the process of adding and searching the collection is significantly more expensive than in a lower level compiled language such as C++. I'm not denying the benefits of 1st class oop, garbage collection, or all the other great things I get, I'm just observing on a performance number. What this means in using Squeak is that you can't opt out to the C++ dumb ass solution of "I got a list of 10K items, I'll just grovel through them to find the one I want." What is ignorable in C++ is a slow mover in Smalltalk. I admit that there are channels in the squeak process that are much swifter. In many cases we elect to use Dictionaries, they do what we need, and are in general much much faster for interactive interface support, at least when you've got lists that include every known US traded ticker symbol. Some routines, such as sort are nice and snappy. I didn't know about mapping read and write streams over a collection, I will have to try it. But as the original observation was mine, I was only stating that languages are tools, and as such, each tends to be optimized for specific applications. What makes a language powerful for a wide range of applications is not the PL/1 approach of "here's my 40 pound function manual", instead it's the ability to extend the underlying system to bring in specialists to deal with special needs. I'd never write a full real time OS in squeak. On the other hand, Squeak makes it possible to write components you need for a real time os, plug em all into squeak, and then use squeak to interact with the OS. Squeak does what it does well, the plugins do what they do well, and the only real nightmare is the fact that you're going to have to bridge manually. A modified IDL for squeak to support plugins would be awesomely cool, if anyone is feeling exceptionally bored. Anyway, thats my 2c. Squeaks great, we've completely chucked Java, we're certainly not knocking it. Just observing that one thing that makes it great is that where it isn't, you can wire in low level components to be great at some one thing. Squeak is a deliberate genuius, plugins are hyperactive idiot savants. Mark

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RE: squeakdot and seaside
by Todd Blanchard 31 Jan '02

31 Jan '02

Which is why I don't do WebObjects anymore. Its not fun. -----Original Message----- From: Avi Bryant [mailto:avi@beta4.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 11:01 AM To: squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org Subject: Re: squeakdot and seaside - Java! At least it used to be Objective-C... Avi

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MenuMorph help !!!!!
by Gary McGovern 31 Jan '02

31 Jan '02

Hello, I am hoping to get some help with some menu code using Squeak 2.7. menu ordereCollection do: [: each | menu add: (each printString) subMenu: (self sub)]. menu openInWorld. sub add: 'i' action: #i and so on sub openInWorld. Both menu and sub are methods. When I open the menus on a program and click any of the items in menu to reach the submenu, I get two exceptions. MessageNotUnderstood: delete MessageNotUnderstood: delete ifPopUp. Then when I delete the menu underneath are a number of subs (to the size of the OrderedCollection). Where am I going wrong ? Thanks! Gary

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framework faceoff (was Re: squeakdot and seaside)
by Avi Bryant 31 Jan '02

31 Jan '02

Göran writes: > It would be interesting to > build some simple "demo apps" in both our frameworks and then study > strenghts and weaknesses. That sounds like fun. The only simple examples I have right now for IOWA are an RPN calculator and a minesweeper game (most of our work has been on the less simple non-example of a point-of-sale system for a client). If you have ideas for others, we could implement to the same specification and post the code to both... Cheers, Avi

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