Squeak-dev October 2005

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180 participants
296 discussions

[AardWorks] Host/users discovery
by Noury Bouraqadi 05 Oct '05

05 Oct '05

Hi Cees, Michaël and I work on a project where we need to support discovery of hosts in a given network. We spent some time looking at AardWorks code and applications (Chat, and Kolibris). But, we aren't sure about how users learn about each other. Imagine that x don't now anybody. Then how x can learn about existing other peers ? My question is about how to "bootstrap" the system. We understood the idea of Gossiping. But, how the first peer is discovered in AardWorks applications? Thanks, Noury -------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Noury Bouraqadi - Enseignant/Chercheur Ecole des Mines de Douai - Dept. G.I.P http://csl.ensm-douai.fr/noury European Smalltalk Users Group Board http://www.esug.org Squeak: an Open Source Smalltalk http://www.squeak.org --------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: What do we call the supertype of Class and Trait?
by jwalsh＠bigpond.net.au 05 Oct '05

05 Oct '05

This may sound rediculous to you Stephane, but it is called Thought. This is definately NOT an insult. It is actually a subclass of Behavior. (minor design flaw). It is not in Smalltalk because it was designed for very small children. JW ---- "stéphane ducasse" <ducasse(a)iam.unibe.ch> wrote: > Difficult question... > > Behavior is a good name for classes and traits. > Behavior as in Smalltalk is more ClassEssence or ClassCore but we > cannot change that. > > Stef > > > On 4 oct. 05, at 04:42, Daniel Vainsencher wrote: > > > Hi everyone. > > > > In many places in Squeak, we do things to classes. In many of > > those, we actually want to be doing those things also to Traits, or > > any other code-containing abstraction, probably. For example, we > > want to to be able to browse it, file it in/out and such. > > > > So what do we call this concept? > > > > Just to make the discussion more concrete, I'll give some specific > > cases: > > -SysNav>>allClasses should probably only return real classes, but > > it is used in various places in which all Traits should be returned > > as well, for example Compiler recompileAll should recompile Traits, > > since otherwise some obsoletely compiled methods would remain even > > in classes : ones that are composed with Traits. > > -In the tools, in many places we do something like > > "self selectedClass ifNil:[^self]. <otherwise>" > > In some of those places, we actually want to exclude Traits, and > > there I've been using #isBehavior: instead of #ifNil:, however > > Adrian and I are both somewhat inclined to think of Traits as being > > Behaviors, sort of. But clearly, we want some name that includes > > both, and some name that includes classes (and other Behavior > > subclasses?) but that excludes traits. > > > > So I'm asking for more opinions. > > > > Daniel > > > > > >

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Squeak Chat Sunday October 9th 09:00 GMT
by Ken Causey 05 Oct '05

05 Oct '05

Just a reminder that the next Squeak Chat will take place between 09:00 (9 AM) and 13:00 (1 PM) GMT Sunday October 9th, 2005. As usual we will meet in #squeak on irc.freenode.net. More information about the #squeak IRC channel can be found at http://people.squeakfoundation.org/article/7.html This is a good time to contribute to the development of Squeak by participating in the Harvesting Process. One of the main ways to contribute is by Reviewing submitted fixes and enhancements. For information about the Harvesting Process see http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/3152 If you have the time please attend and work toward the future of Squeak. The next seven chats are scheduled for 13:00 (01:00 PM) GMT Thursday October 13, 2005 17:00 (05:00 PM) GMT Monday October 17, 2005 21:00 (09:00 PM) GMT Friday October 21, 2005 01:00 (01:00 AM) GMT Wednesday October 26, 2005 04:00 (04:00 AM) GMT Sunday October 30, 2005 08:00 (08:00 AM) GMT Thursday November 03, 2005 12:00 (12:00 PM) GMT Monday November 07, 2005

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Re: The future ( was: Re: What do we call the supertype of Class and Trait?)
by jwalsh＠bigpond.net.au 05 Oct '05

05 Oct '05

Michael said: > While not disagreeing with you re children, I don't understand what makes > this project extraordinary. I think Michael is fending off what he perceives to be a mild attack on Smalltalk. It's a shame I am not able to get his pluggin, then I could be more accurate, with my response. (I've unbolted everything from my Windows98 OS and rely on Firefox only). However, I am simply saying that Intelligence is the product of a Reasoning Process, in all developed, sensitive creatures. Reason is not Intelligence itself. It is more catalyctic, promotes development. I see intelligence in animals as more and more measured by their level of reasoning than on the size of their brain or their capacity to merely store information. That appears to me where science is taking us. Thus, Reason as Mental Faculty has two main Functions. 1. to support Analytic Thought (human) 2. to support Synthetic Behaviour (animal). 3. given, that our being is both animal and human. Smalltalk according to Kays initial Mission Statement and Requirements Definition, is fairly strictly defined: the Mode of Communication and the Mode of Behaviour more peculiar to a child. He is following through with that original plan i.e. "Inventing the Future" thru' mind of a child. It does work, that is all I can say, and Micheal is right. At 66 I see the world differently. I have the same faculty of Reason, together with Immagination and Understanding, but I need to use it differently. Why must I be forced into the Synthethic Immaginative Behaviour of a Child or even a mature Ambitious Adult. I need more Analyitic power from Smalltalk, to fit my more Senile demands. Does that make sense? A little Smalltalk tweaking will however increase it's Analytic, rather than Synthetic power. regards JW ---- Blake <blake(a)kingdomrpg.com> wrote: > On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 14:25:06 -0700, Michael Rueger <michael(a)impara.de> > wrote: > > > I think you underestimate (small) children... > > One of the most, both humbling and enlightening moments was realizing > > what the project by two girls actually meant: > > http://www.squeakland.org/project.jsp?http://www.squeakland.org/fun_project… > > > > They came up with a fully parallel solution that every computer > > scientist would have shied away from... > > > > Michael > > > > While not disagreeing with you re children, I don't understand what makes > this project extraordinary. >

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RE: [Newbee] Salutations
by Ramon Leon 05 Oct '05

05 Oct '05

> I agree. It seems to me that Java is Smalltalk strongly > typed and with a business model to attract corporations and > Server Vendors. There is a model which allows private Java is no where near Smalltalk, Ruby is close, Java, no way.

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Editors for the new website
by Jason Rogers 04 Oct '05

04 Oct '05

Hello all. I am excited by the amount of enthusiasm I see in the community about the new site. Thanks. There have been several inquiries about how to become an editor to the new site. We don't currently have a well-defined process to add new editors, but we will do our best to put our minds together and figure out what that should be. Currently you can just send a request to the website team list or dev list. Please let us know what you would like for your username. If we "have an opening" for a new editor a password will be assigned to you. However, for security reasons we would like to not send this information through standard email. What I have done in the past is to put the login information on Box2 in the website user's home directory. I will ask you for an SSH key and add it to the website user's authorized_keys file on Box2. At that point you will be able to SCP the file down (or just SSH in to the box and read the file) to get your password. I realize that is not an optimal process, but I don't think adding editors ought to be that optimal. It's just opens the site up to industrious hackers by sniffing emails. If you think I am being too paranoid feel free to chastise me. If I am chastened enough perhaps I will change the process. Likewise, if you have a better idea how to add editors securely let me know. -- Jason Rogers "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." Galatians 2:20

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The Weekly Squeak No.5: September 19th - September 25th
by Giovanni Corriga 04 Oct '05

04 Oct '05

Dear squeakers, Hello, and welcome back to the The Weekly Squeak, a weekly report on what's going on in the world of Squeak. Sorry for being late... to make amend, we are proud to introduce you to SqueakViews, a series of interviews with the Squeak Developers. In this first installment, Giovanni Giorgi has a quick chat with Stéphane Ducasse. In this issue you'll find: 1. Loading vs. Merging in Monticello 2. How VMMaker works 3. HashTables 4. BabyUML overview posted 5. Ottawa Smalltalk Users Group meeting 6. Smalltalk Job Offer in France 7. 64-bit OSProcessPlugin, XDisplayControlPlugin, AioPlugin on SM 8. A Sourdough Image 9. A directory with Companies using Smalltalk 10. New Magma release 11. NetJam, Quoth and Spoon 12. Ken Causey joins the Coordinators 13. How to do things in an MC update stream world 14. Squeak Planets 15. SqueakLight status 16. ACM's Classic Books in Computer Science 17. Charsets support in SmallWiki 1 18. Upcoming Squeak Chats 19. SqueakViews: an interview with Stéphane Ducasse You'll find the complete report at http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/5740 . The past issues archive can be found at http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/5751 .

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[ANN] SqF and Coordinators merge!
by goran＠krampe.se 04 Oct '05

04 Oct '05

Hi fellow Squeakers! As we have hinted earlier the recently revived/re-born/activated/created :) Squeak Foundation (currently Stephane, Noury, Marcus) and the Coordinators (Goran, Marcus, Doug, Cees, Ken (Ken is a new member)) have been discussing merging. And yes, Marcus is in both groups. :) We have through a private email flood :) been making sure we all have the same vision/goals. We are now happy to say that it all ended up *very well* - and hopefully also sparked a few good changes in the process! So from this day the "Coordinators" is "no more" - we are all just the "Squeak Foundation" or SqF for short and we are thus 7 people in the *board* of SqF (=called the "core" earlier, but the "board" seems more appropriate). We all think this is great and a real boost to both groups and for the future! Ok, so what does the merge mean for the community and for the former two groups? Let's see: The Merge ============ Practically the merge is quite simple: The mysterious-island list has been deprecated. While I personally think it is fun to use references to "The Mysterious Island" book by Jules Verne (which inspired Dan Ingalls to pick the balloon in the first place), it does imply some "mysteriousness" and that is unfortunate. So the new corresponding list for the new SqF board is: board(a)discuss.squeakfoundation.org This list is (just like the mysterious-list) private and used by the board (=us 7) to discuss things that simply can't be discussed in public. Since almost all issues *can* and *should* be discussed in public on squeak-dev or other suitable lists - this list is used only when really needed. Anyone can post to that list and this ensures our attention since it is a low traffic list. Another important thing with the list is that it is the *only* communication channel we use between ourselves, which means we all have the same picture and information internally. Internal model ----------------- The new SqF has a flat board. Noone has any more "power" than anyone else in that board. In order to prevent total chaos :) we use the same Team model internally as we use openly in squeak-dev. This means that if we have a longer "internal" project - like for example getting the Supporter program working and maintaining it - we declare a Team and a leader for it and so on. If you don't have a firm grip on the current Team model, please do read it again: http://swiki.krampe.se/castaways/6 (By the way, the above Swiki content will very soon be moved to the new www.squeak.org site) Work principles ------------------ We have agreed on the following "rules" for our own behavior. - We do NOT make promises to squeak-dev if we haven't already decided to DO IT. If we do make promises there should always be someone with personal responsibility for it. - We do not use private email about SqF issues, everything goes to the list so that we are sure we all have the same picture within the board. - We do not use the mailinglist for issues that can be discussed openly on squeak-dev or other lists, which should be the majority of issues. - We take great care to show when we "speak" for SqF, it should then be explicitly noted. All other postings should by default be considered personal opinions. External relations -------------------- Both the "Wise" list and the collection of Stakeholder community contact persons are "channels" we want to use in order to make sure we do "the right things". We will keep writing the regular reports that the Coordinators have been posting, they are important to show the community what we are doing in a more easy format. Stated goals -------------- After the merge we start by revising the goals as listed on the SqF smallwiki. They should more clearly reflect the goals of the new combined SqF. Representational model --------------------------- Now when we merge we also think it is important to take a first, small careful step towards a more representative/democratic model for SqF. Note that the model below is NOT anywhere near a perfect model - but instead of getting caught in an endless debate we chose something simple and careful that we could quickly agree on. So please keep that in mind. :) The model is this: - We want to create an Election Team with a Team leader that is NOT in the SqF board. - Whenever someone of us current 7 board members decides to step down *and* the board wants to get a replacement, it is the job of the election Team, in *whichever* way it finds suitable, to come up with a replacement. This means that the first job of the Election Team is probably to establish some kind of voting procedure (or whatever) ready for use. - Whenever the board wants to recruit someone specific (or non specific) thus growing the board, we do it "through" the Election Team. - The Election Team also has the task to come up with a better future model than the above. Any such new election model it presents needs to be approved by a united board though. A few notes on the above: - We leave it to squeak-dev to discuss and find a suitable Election Team leader. We will only try to help if noone steps forward willing to pick up the ball. So consider the ball rolling. :) - We deliberately did not include an option for the board to refuse the replacement presented by the Election Team. We will trust the Election Team to do a good job and to communicate with the board during its process. - The full procedure to find a replacement is entirely delegated to the Election Team. If the team chooses to use public voting or throwing a dice :) - it is up to the Team. - When we want to recruit a specific person we will go through the election Team and simply give them our name and motivation. Then they use their process, whatever that might be. In theory they could end up rejecting that person or whatever. - Whichever new future model the Election Team produces, we still currently reserve the power to reject it. Yes, a bit on the cautious side, but as we said, the above model is not perfect. ;) - The fact that the model still leaves no options for the community to *initiate* any changes in the board (any initiative still comes from inside) should motivate the Election Team and the community to come up with a better model to replace this one :). Now... before you start bashing the above model, note this: We will in that case expect that you join the Election Team and participate in the process to get a better model in place. ;) Final words ------------- We all feel really positive about the new SqF and the energy behind it. We also feel the Squeak community is slowly but steadily getting on the right tracks in several areas, but there is always improvement ahead. Let's make Squeak and the Squeak community even better and also not forget to have great fun doing it all together! /Göran, Marcus, Doug, Stephane, Cees, Noury and Ken - SqF board PS. A short report will follow with the immediate more practical stuff.

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local address and hostname on Unix
by Philippe Marschall 04 Oct '05

04 Oct '05

Hi I thought to get the network address and name of the local machine I do: NetNameResolver localHostName NetNameResolver localAddressString This works on Windows but on Unix it returns just the loopback addresses 'localhost' and '127.0.01'. So what is the way to do it on Unix? Cheers Philippe

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What do we call the supertype of Class and Trait?
by Daniel Vainsencher 04 Oct '05

04 Oct '05

Hi everyone. In many places in Squeak, we do things to classes. In many of those, we actually want to be doing those things also to Traits, or any other code-containing abstraction, probably. For example, we want to to be able to browse it, file it in/out and such. So what do we call this concept? Just to make the discussion more concrete, I'll give some specific cases: -SysNav>>allClasses should probably only return real classes, but it is used in various places in which all Traits should be returned as well, for example Compiler recompileAll should recompile Traits, since otherwise some obsoletely compiled methods would remain even in classes : ones that are composed with Traits. -In the tools, in many places we do something like "self selectedClass ifNil:[^self]. <otherwise>" In some of those places, we actually want to exclude Traits, and there I've been using #isBehavior: instead of #ifNil:, however Adrian and I are both somewhat inclined to think of Traits as being Behaviors, sort of. But clearly, we want some name that includes both, and some name that includes classes (and other Behavior subclasses?) but that excludes traits. So I'm asking for more opinions. Daniel

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