Squeak-dev February 2005

squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org

191 participants
430 discussions

RE: Views on Map
by Frank Shearar 02 Feb '05

02 Feb '05

Blake <blake(a)kingdomrpg.com> wrote: > On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 17:10:13 -0000, Frank Shearar > <Frank.Shearar(a)rnid.org.uk> wrote: > > > Conveniently enough I recently submitted a changeset adding > > #asScrollPane to Morph - Morph currently has > #asTwoWayScrollPane, and > > TwoWayScrollPane's actually deprecated. Review the > changeset, and help > > get it into the image > > I'm not sure how to apply this information. What do I get out of a > #asTwoWayScrollPane? If I can work it out, I can, at least, review it. Oh, actually I gave the wrong message names. They should be #inATwoWayScrollPane and #inAScrollPane. That probably answers your question. "foo inAScrollPane" just gives you a ScrollPane that lets you scroll in both X & Y directions, containing foo. In my case I've an ImageMapEditor, which has an image of some kind and a bunch of shapes overlaying it (circles, rectangles, polygons). I've an ImageMorph that I add to the UI stuff by calling "holder addMorph: image inAScrollPane". Since a picture's sometimes worth a thousand words, I've attached a screenshot showing what I mean. You'll see that the ScrollPane's not at the top left of the image, just to try illustrate the scrolling. frank ******************************************************************* This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent RNID policy. If you are not the intended recipient you are advised that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify the RNID Helpdesk by telephone on: +44 (0) 207 296 8282. The Royal National Institute for Deaf People Registered Office 19*23 Featherstone Street London EC1Y 8SL No. 454169 (England) Registered Charity No. 207720 ********************************************************************

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Error updating 3.9a image, seems a problem in The InternetOne
by German Morales 02 Feb '05

02 Feb '05

Hi all, Updating an empty 3.9a image, I get a SystemWindow with the following message: " UndefinedObject as yet unclassified Nothing more expected -><HTML><HEAD> <STYLE type=text/css>#dek { Z-INDEX: 200; VISIBILITY: hidden; POSITION: absolute } </STYLE> <TITLE>Welkom bij The InternetOne</TITLE> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"> <LINK href="/world/444.css" type=text/css rel=stylesheet> <META content="Microsoft FrontPage 5.0" name=GENERATOR> <style fprolloverstyle>A:hover {color: #8673A0; text-decoration: none} </style> <SCRIPT language=JavaScript src="utils.js"></SCRIPT> <SCRIPT> < " It seems that it fails to download something and ends up in a welcome page of the site. Any idea? Thanks in advance German Morales

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New maiing list stuff on SqF box - volunteers wanted with ezmlm experience
by Cees de Groot 02 Feb '05

02 Feb '05

Setting up the SqF box is progressing nicely. One of the long-term goals is to move the lists from the current location (The InternetOne) to the box, and yesterday the first tiny steps towards that goal have been taken by installing ezmlm-idx and configuring a test list. The list currently runs on mailman; the move to ezmlm is mostly because it turns out that mailman, being written in Python, is resource hungry and as we want to pack lots of services on that box, it is better to go with something that is friendlier. Ezmlm-idx basis on ezmlm, which is one of a series of idiosyncratic packages written by Dan Bernstein; idiosyncratic in the sense that they adhere to the old Unix philosophy (small, simple components that perform work by cooperation), have very low memory and processing requirements, and are virtually bug-free. For the new location, the name 'discuss.squeakfoundation.org' has been set up. The idea is to move everything over in three phases, each taking maybe a month: - Phase 1: new lists will be setup on the new server. - Phase 2: low-volume lists will be transferred to the new server. - Phase 3: the high volume lists (squeak-dev and seaside, I think) are transferred over together with the domain name. The idea is that we move a smoothly as possible, giving us time to learn about ezmlm, tweak list parameters, etcetera; however, I think it is important that the high-volume (and therefore highly visible) lists have the old name at least as an alias, so they'll moved last and at that time lists.squeakfoundation.org will point to the new setup. The 'volunteers wanted' bit is because ezmlm has the nice property that it runs under any Qmail user's account; in the current configuration all the lists will run under a single unprivileged user's control. So it's easy for us (the SqF Box Admin Drones[tm]) to ask one or two people, preferably those with mailing list management experience, preferably with ezmlm(-idx), to volunteer in mailing list management - setting up lists, helping list moderators with their daily chores, etcetera. The first task will be to setup a system management list ;) Volunteers can apply by sending a hand-written letter with picture and full resume to SqF BAD Inc., c/o Human Resources Dept., PO Box 42666, Grand Cayman, Cayman Islands; or by dropping me an email. Please don't forget to mention why you should be the one to be offered this unique and once-in-a-lifetime chance to serve the Squeak Community ;) Regards, Cees

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Looking for fileOutAsZipNamed:
by stéphane ducasse 02 Feb '05

02 Feb '05

In the comments of SMSARInstaller I read that: See ChangeSet>>fileOutAsZipNamed: for one way to make these files. Here is another way of creating a multi change set archive installable by SqueakMap: "The following doit will create a .sar file with HVs preamble and postscript as separate entries and the included changesets included as normal. Given a preamble as described below this will autoinstall in SqueakMap." (ChangeSorter changeSetNamed: 'HV') fileOutAsZipNamed: 'httpview-021023.sar' including: { ChangeSorter changeSetNamed: 'HVFixes'. ChangeSorter changeSetNamed: 'kom412'} But I cannot find implementors of fileOutAsZipNamed: Any idea where they went :) Stef

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FFI Win32 api calls with LPTSTR args?
by Cees de Groot 02 Feb '05

02 Feb '05

Hi, I want to use some Win32 API functions to make my app a bit more windoze friendly, most notably to place temporary files in the correct location (GetTempPath) and to find out where the user's home directory is (haven't found that one yet ;)). My knowledge of FFI is as big as that of Win32, i.e. almost completely absent. I haven't seen an example that uses the 'LPTSTR' (char **?) argument type, so I'm a bit at a loss as how to do this - could somebody help me here? TIA, Cees

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Re: A Forum may be better in grouping messages then a mailing list
by Chris Muller 02 Feb '05

02 Feb '05

I find the mailing list cumbersome at times too, but my preference is to move more into Squeak, not out. Is there a newsreader available for Squeak? I know of none. This is why one of my projects is building a pure domain to help read, search, manage and participate on the list from within Squeak. I've a half-baked start on it and, yes, Thread is a first-class object. For searching, I plan to index the entire archive of these domain instances into a Magma repository (which should be made publicly accessible on the Internet). For the UI, anyone can write their own or use the included naked-objects utility (Maui) which, itself, allows for fast and easy customizations based on individual desires. - Chris

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Re: [ANN] Stable Squeak 3.7 Universe
by Lex Spoon 02 Feb '05

02 Feb '05

=?ISO-8859-1?Q?st=E9phane_ducasse?= <ducasse(a)iam.unibe.ch> wrote: > did you publish the script you used to create these images? 1. Find a student. 2. Give them some real work. 3. Watch them procrastinate away until such an image pops out... Seriously, I've now posted some info on where it all came from. Info appended as well. -Lex MAKING OF THE STABLE 3.7 UNIVERSE The universe itself was developed roughly as follows: 1. Import SqueakMap into a universe named "Squeak 3.7". 2. Announce that a stable universe is being built. 3. Wait 2 weeks for people to hack away at it. 4. Close the universe off from public edits. Only the release manager can edit it after this point. 5. Try loading all the packages, and remove ones that fail a basic smoke test. (This was MISERABLE. It should get better in the future, though.) 6. Scan through the packages and clean up names adn description. For example, we don't need "Refactoring Browser for 3.7", and can instead call it "Refactoring Browser". 7. Fix up dependencies. These all had to be added by hand. 8. Clean up a few packages, that do not load nicely. (I won't do this in the future!) 9. Programatically remove all old versions of packages. There is no point to them in a stable universe. 10. Clear out the universetmp directory, and create a new one by downloading all the packages that have survived to this point. 11. Upload all the package files to a single directory on the universes server. 12. Edit all package entries to point to the universes server, instead of where the original package was. 2 weeks is short for creating a truly low-bug universe, but I didn't expect people to really spend a lot of time on this first stable universe. In the future, we should think about driving it from the bug tracker: continue until the number of severe bugs is reasonably low. Item 8 is *much* easier if the bug tracker is helping. I would like to get to the point where failure to load is a true surprise and is worth filing a bug about. Right now, nobody is surprised when a package doesn't load, and they don't seem to complain, and thus the situation never gets remedied. Items 11 and 12 are optional, but they seem to make a big difference in practice. It's bad to pull from 20 different web sites and ftp sites, because at any given time ,it is likely at least one of them will be down. With the current solution, Item 5 truly sucked. Downloading all those packages, waiting for http servers to time out, dealing with the errors (either fixing the error and uploading a new version, fixing a dependency, or removing the package from the universe), then trying to continue where i left off.... I think it will be better now that the worst offenders have already been removed. The image itself was developed as follows: 1. Start with a 3.7 basic image. 2. Load universes. 3. Set Stable 3.7 as the current system universe. 4. Open a universes browser and "update list". 5. Remove SqueakMap. It's in the universes browser, and it is confusing to have two package loaders visible to newbies. 6. Install the "Universes", "Compiler", and "AppRegistry" packages. These are pre-installed packages that also have enttries in the universe, and you have to do this in order for the universes tools to realize they have already been loaded. 7. Write a readme window. The zip file includes the image plus a fully populated universetmp cache. USEFUL CODE SNIPPETS I was not careful to keep all these around, but here are a few useful ones. univ _ UUniverse systemUniverse. "delete all downloaded files that are no longer needed" dir _ FileDirectory default directoryNamed: 'universetmp'. univ packages do: [ :p | (dir isAFileNamed: p url path last) ifFalse: [ p inspect ] ]. extraneous _ dir entries select: [ :ent | univ packages noneSatisfy: [ :p | p url path last = ent name ] ]. extraneous do: [ :ent | dir deleteFileNamed: ent name ]. "update all entries to point to the universes server instead of their original location" client _ UUniverseClient new. univ packages select: [ :p | p url scheme ~= 'http' ] univ packages do: [ :p | newp _ p deepCopy. newcomponents _ { 'universes' . 'repositories' . 'stable-3.7' . p url path last }. newp url: (HttpUrl schemeName: 'http' authority: 'universes.dnsalias.net:8888' path: newcomponents query: nil). client sendMessage: (UMAddPackage username: 'master' password: 'PASSWORD' package: newp) ]. client processIO "remove the list of packages in toRemove from the server" client _ UUniverseClient new. toRemove do: [ :p | client sendMessage: (UMRemovePackage username: 'master' password: 'PASSWORD' packageName: p name packageVersion: p version) ]. client processIO.

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Re: Clastic port?
by Chris Muller 01 Feb '05

01 Feb '05

> Should I just create one class (the "Clean" object?) with tons of instance-side > methods (one per function definition)? No. Classes with tons of methods tend to have too much responsibility and are hard to maintain. While it sometimes turns that way (i.e., Morph), I would not consider it something to do deliberately. "When in doubt, make an object." > I'm also thinking that I would like to use Andreas' extensions to > method invocation to simplify the syntax of having lots of arguments. I'd stay away from magic when plain objects will do just fine. Lots of arguments makes things harder to use and maintain as well. Why not have a first-class object, a ClasticFigureSpec or ClasticDefinition or something like that. Separate the definition-of-the-drawing from the drawing itself. Hope this helps, Chris

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[ANN] Golgi
by Michal 01 Feb '05

01 Feb '05

Way back when, in the days where grass was still green and squeak still a little mouse on its way to Dinseyland, I wrote "Golgi" an outliner for Squeak (or "note-taker", "thought-processor" depending on who you talk to), and I have been using almost daily it ever since. That was around Squeak 2.3. Recently I needed to port it to a more grown-up Squeak, and as a side-effect Golgi is now packaged and available on SqueakMap (and hence available from your usual package loader). It was ported in a 3.7 image, but I have succesfully imported it into a 3.8 image (as well as into a 3.6 image with minor backports of 3.7 methods). Enjoy, Michal ps. During all that time, I have been following the Squeak community on and off, and I hope to have the time to become a bit more active again.

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Re: Let us face reality
by Lex Spoon 01 Feb '05

01 Feb '05

This talk of paying worries me. I see many open source projects that do very well with very little funding. I see many people participating in Squeak -- after all, just look how many ENH's we have. :) Surely there is a way to channel all this energy, especially given the large number of successful OS projects in the universe? I fear that if we use money to prop up our current situation, we will just keep on doing things in a sub-optimal way. Surely we can figure out what the other guys do, that we do not? I do not oppose spending money in general on Squeak; I simply worry about trying to use it to speed up business as usual. > - Packaging. Packaging. Packaging. Did I mention Packaging? You will never > get enough manpower together to manage a monolithic image. Not unless you > want to call yourself Java or something. I'm quite sure that as soon as > the core is of a managable proportion, a lot of the backlog will vanish > because the load will be distributed; if someone doesn't take up 'his' > bugs, just kill them. If a package is not maintained and starts to exhibit > bit rot problems, junk it. Here here!! You are all tired of hearing it, but Debian does *fabulously* on very little money. 8000+ packages and 900+ developers. A major part of Debian, I think, is that everything is divided into packages and each package has a maintainer. Un-maintained packages are gradually marginalized and then removed from the distribution. When there is a bug report, it's easy to see who is responsible, and it's easy for the responsible person to become aware of it. Are there any bugs posted against Chuck right now on Mantis? I have no idea. And what about Nebraska, which is still in the image? Eek. In Debian, I have exactly two bug reports open. > - A good portal where new members, as someone else explained here, are > presented with information about what constitutes good behavior; if more > people get invited to the harvesting process, AND the scope decreases, we > can go a long way towards making the maintenance manageable. I don't know if it needs to be the front page, but I certainly agree that our current situation is very confusing. Further, it's tough to contribute. As I've posted before, opening BFAV and looking at random enh's and fix's is quite hard, and feels wasteful of my time. http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2004-June/078737.html It has occured to me to sign up as the Nebraska maintainer, but I don't even know how. I could figure it out, I guess, and I will eventually, but shouldn't this be very easy? Someone volunteered for EToys not too long ago (Ned I think), and it was actually *overlooked* because they merely posted it to the list. A SqueakSource-like portal would rock, but a great start would be for someone to go through the swiki and really organize all the pages about our processes, whatever they are. Start from here: "How to contribute to Squeak" http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/3279 This page is honestly not bad, but it bothers me that "maintain a package" and "assume responsibility for a segment of Squeak" are not listed on this page. I know its in the swiki somewhere... > I'm putting up the devil's advocate hat here, it'd be nice if more people > could earn their money with Squeak, especially if they'd develop Squeak > rather then develop in Squeak, but I'm not convinced that it is this > community's most pressing problem at the moment. Well, I'd like to see it, but again, I want us to be extremely careful about where we interject money. It will prop up one part, but if it is failing on its own, is it really something we want to spend money on? I say we pay people to make Squeak books. :) -Lex

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