Squeak-dev May 2005

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153 participants
243 discussions

Harvesting Party Sunday May 29th 01:00 GMT
by Ken Causey 25 May '05

25 May '05

Just a reminder that the next Harvesting Party will take place between 01:00 (1 AM) and 05:00 (5 AM) GMT Sunday May 29th, 2005. As usual we will meet in #squeak on irc.freenode.net. More information about the #squeak IRC channel can be found at http://people.squeakfoundation.org/article/7.html Information about the Harvesting Party idea can be found at http://people.squeakfoundation.org/article/29.html If you have the time please attend and work toward the future of Squeak. The next seven parties are scheduled for 05:00 (05:00 AM) GMT Thursday June 02, 2005 09:00 (09:00 AM) GMT Monday June 06, 2005 13:00 (01:00 PM) GMT Friday June 10, 2005 17:00 (05:00 PM) GMT Tuesday June 14, 2005 21:00 (09:00 PM) GMT Saturday June 18, 2005 01:00 (01:00 AM) GMT Thursday June 23, 2005 05:00 (05:00 AM) GMT Monday June 27, 2005

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Re: [ANN] Squeak bindings for D-Bus
by Daniel B. Faken 25 May '05

25 May '05

Jason Rogers wrote: > Daniel B. Faken wrote: > >Hello all, > > > > I've put up a first version of my Squeak-Smalltalk bindings to the > D-Bus > >IPC system at: http://www.ccv.brown.edu/~faken/squeak/DBus-0.1.1.cs > > > > > Shouldn't that be http://www.cascv.brown.edu/~faken/squeak/DBus-0.1.1.cs Yes; they are equivalent. Also, some people seem have have trouble finding the site with their DNS.. The IP address is: 128.148.20.117 thanks, Daniel Faken

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Re: Talking to other languages (with callbacks!) - possible solution
by Daniel B. Faken 24 May '05

24 May '05

Lex Spoon wrote: [snip] > my working assumptions have been: > 1. If you want to talk to the software world, speak C. It's the lingua > posixa and almost everything can speak it in some fashion. > > 2. Speaking C without an accent means you have to support callbacks > and using the Squeak VM as a library. > > 3. Allowing callbacks means that the interpreter must be reentrant and > that the VM is implemented with a call stack that alternates back and > forth between Squeak and C. > [snip] > If I understand correctly, the DBus > strategy might be an alternative that is easier than #3. Exactly my point.. or, on an aside: easier for me, since I don't want to get involved in Squeak internals, which I'm guessing would take a long time to understand well enough to modify nicely (and this assuming they don't need a complete rearchitecting). > Further, it > seems plausible that DBus will become a widely used "language" of its > own -- perhaps even *the* lingua posixa of 2010 -- thus meaning #1 on > the list above is unnecessary. I'm more conservatively hoping it will at least be *supported* for quite a while :). In any case I agree that it is a good portability strategy to converse easily with C. Besides, Squeak's easy FFI to the DBus C library is what made the bindings realizeable in the first place.. > Some questions: > > - How hard is it to bind an *arbitrary* C program to DBus? If it's > easy, then that means we can talk to arbitrary C libraries even when > they don't already have DBus support. (It also means that DBus will be > supported more widely, because people can say "why not" and offer DBus > bindings.) DBus is a C library, so in that sense its trivial.. If you mean 'how hard is it to bind an arbitrary object-oriented system', then I would say it seems relatively simple given the work I've done for Squeak bindings. It is *designed* to be easy to bind.. > - You mention some impressive high-level examples--TeapotMorphs > and TFrames. How about basic stuff like arithmetic? That is, how hard > would it be to write in C the following: > > obj = executeSmalltalkCode("Compile evaluate: '5 factorial'"); > > How complicated is executeSmalltalkCode()? Well, currently this is not very hard.. it would just be a matter of constructing a message to whatever object 'Compile' is, and reading the answer.. maybe 5 lines of C. > I ask about this example because I am wondering about what the exact > overheads are of going via DBus. Those overheads can easily disappear > into the noise if you are doing a more complicated project. If you mean performance overhead: I haven't done benchmarks, and things really aren't at that stage yet ("premature optimization.."). If you mean boilerplate-type overhead, this can be reduced... > Please update the list with any further work you do on it -- this is useful stuff! I'll announce something this week.. I appreciate the response - it lets me know other people are interested in the issue.. cheers, Daniel

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Squeak/Seaside on PDA-Windows ?
by Alexandre Bergel 24 May '05

24 May '05

Hello, I did a small seaside application that I would like to use on PDA (Windows). How should I proceed ? Do I only need to use the PDA VM without changing anything in my application? cheers, alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~bergel ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

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Fwd: mailling squeak fé passé !merci
by François THIMON 24 May '05

24 May '05

I have a morphic-problem : I created a robot-morph, with two eyes (submorphs) and I need to find the coordinates of the center of my eyes in the playfield (in order to find distance between my eyes and others morphs of the playfield). When heading=0, I use 'self x@self y' to find this point, and it work well, but when my robot's heading is different from 0 it dont match, maybe because the referencePosition is 'wrong' (it's a kind of offset). So how can I find the true submorphs center coordinates when the owner got a transformationMorph on him? Thanks

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Class Name
by BELEM Mahamadou 24 May '05

24 May '05

Hello 1) It is possible to call a methode of a class by using a string? Example : myString := 'car'. /where car is a class name. I want by using myString, call the "run" methode of a object of car : myString run. Can some body explain how to do? Please 2) How to get the class name of a object? I try myObject className, but it doesn't perform. Best regards. --------------------------------- Découvrez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail : 1 Go d'espace de stockage pour vos mails, photos et vidéos ! Créez votre Yahoo! Mail

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Teams progress?
by Brent Vukmer 24 May '05

24 May '05

I was looking around on discuss.squeakfoundation.org earlier today, trying to catch up on the various teams' status. Would the various team leads have time to write up a quick summary of where the team is? Am I being a pain in the neck? :)

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Re: How to change the squeak licence ?
by Lex Spoon 24 May '05

24 May '05

Ross, are you aware that Squeak's founders were working at Apple at the time? And that they worked directly with Apple's lawyers in order to get a satisfactory open-source license? You appear to be suspicious of Squeak-L's drafters just because they were working for a large corporation. I agree with your characterization of lawyers' motives. Don't overlook, however, that it was *our* large corporation, at the time, that they were working for. Yes, the license protects the licensor, as any good license should do. It also gives the freedoms to download Squeak with source code, modify it, and redistribute it. There is nothing insidious here. It was just lawyers -- our lawyers -- crafting a fair license. It is shooting the messenger to reject this carefully crafted license just because it mentions things that are unpleasant. Your responses are getting flippant. I searched the US Gov's web site to find any export regulations I could that apply. As far as I can find, the regs simply don't apply to non-military software. Like you suggest, the regs appear to say that exporting Squeak (or SML-NJ, or Cecil) is fine, but exporting a missile-control program written in Squeak is restricted. These restrictions apply to any software written in the US, and all that Squeak's export clause adds to this is that you can't get American redistributors of Squeak into trouble by your actions. That seems only reasonable. I don't see what the problem is that the license requires that the downloader not cause harm to Apple through their actions. That seems like an entirely reasonable requirement, and at any rate it appears to be a standard agreement. Regarding the "to the extent of" language, remember that "Modified Software" is software that the licensee has created. Thus, the indemnification clause only applies to actions of the licensee (or enabled by the licensee), not to any old use of Squeak. I think this is completely fair. If you do something to get Apple in trouble, then you are liable to the extent that you did so. In both cases, I admit I'm not a lawyer. There might be some obscure problem here. But that could be said about anything. We did the smart thing and got advise from lawyers. Overall, freedom means you can do what you want until you harm someone else. You seem to be asking for anarchy, the ability to do absolutely anything. Squeak-L is a free license, not an anarchistic one. Is freedom not enough? That's an interesting case about the Apple-fan web site; I'll take your word on it. I still find it very unlikely that Apple will turn over their defense to any outsider. Operationally, Squeak-L's indemnification clause does *not* equal "pay". It gives multiple options. You can pay off Apple's defense team if you want, but you can also opt to defend it yourself. I do think the matter under discussion is important. It is important to distinguish things like "practically free" from "theoretically free" from "non-free but no one will ever invoke it". Squeak is great regardless of how good or bad its license is, and I certainly don't want to misrepresent that license and get anyone in trouble. As examples, a couple of things that would cause me to re-evaluate are: serious lawyers could analyze the license and weigh in, or a non-zero number of relevant court cases could happen. Right now, though, I do not see anything to worry about any more than other public activity. Whenever you step outside your door or log your computer into the Internet, you are facing potential legal problems. Beyond this general haze of liability that exists in today's world, I don't see what all the fuss is about with Squeak-L. It's armchair lawyering, and the truth is none of us really knows about Squeak-L--just like with any other open source license. Until we know something more reliable, we ought to go with the spirit of the license and the advice of lawyers that were working on our side. Lex

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REMINDER: Harvesting Party Tuesday May 24th 21:00 GMT
by Ken Causey 23 May '05

23 May '05

Just a reminder that the next Harvesting Party will take place between 21:00 (9 PM) GMT Tuesday May 24th and 01:00 (1 AM) GMT Wednesday May 25th, 2005. As usual we will meet in #squeak on irc.freenode.net. More information about the #squeak IRC channel can be found at http://people.squeakfoundation.org/article/7.html Information about the Harvesting Party idea can be found at http://people.squeakfoundation.org/article/29.html If you have the time please attend and work toward the future of Squeak. The next seven parties are scheduled for 01:00 (01:00 AM) GMT Sunday May 29, 2005 05:00 (05:00 AM) GMT Thursday June 02, 2005 09:00 (09:00 AM) GMT Monday June 06, 2005 13:00 (01:00 PM) GMT Friday June 10, 2005 17:00 (05:00 PM) GMT Tuesday June 14, 2005 21:00 (09:00 PM) GMT Saturday June 18, 2005 01:00 (01:00 AM) GMT Thursday June 23, 2005

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Re: Sponsoring ESUG conference et questions SmallTalk
by BELEM Mahamadou 23 May '05

23 May '05

Bonjour Je vous remercie pour l'acceptation de ma demande de participation à la conférence ESUG. J'en suis vraiment reconnaissant. J'aimerai poser quelques questions concernant SmallTalk. En fait je fais un modèle multi-agents, pour cela, je fais une programmation concurente. J'utilise à cet effet des Process (c'est la première fois que j'utilise les threads en Smalltalk). Chaque objet actif est un Process. Le process principal de l'objet doit contenir 2 sous-process : 1) le premier process pour exécuter les tâches courantes de l'objet 2) le second pour lire les messages reçus Les deux process doivent dependre du process principal de l'objet qui s'exécute en parallèle avec les process des autres objets actifs. Mon souci est comment créer des sous process dépendant uniquement du process principal. J'ai utilisé les syntaxes suivantes mais je ne suis pas convaincu : processPrincipal := [[ [[true] whileTrue:[self executerTacheCourante. Processor yield]] fork. [[true] whileTrue:[self lireMessage. Processor yield]] fork. ]fork ] newProcess. processPrincipal resume. Coordilament Belem Mahamadou Noury Bouraqadi <bouraqadi(a)ensm-douai.fr> a écrit: Dear Smalltalkers, As you probably know, ESUG organizes its event for the thirteenth consuctive year (see http://www.esug.org). And as for every year the ESUG board is looking for companies willing to sponsor the event. So, if you're intersted please show up :-) Regards, Noury - ESUG treasurer -------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Noury Bouraqadi - Enseignant/Chercheur Ecole des Mines de Douai - Dept. G.I.P http://csl.ensm-douai.fr/noury European Smalltalk Users Group Board http://www.esug.org Squeak: an Open Source Smalltalk http://www.squeak.org -------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- Découvrez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail : 1 Go d'espace de stockage pour vos mails, photos et vidéos ! Créez votre Yahoo! Mail

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