Squeak-dev August 2005

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157 participants
234 discussions

RE: Smalltalk and Self
by Jecel Assumpcao Jr 30 Aug '05

30 Aug '05

Alan Lovejoy wrote on Mon, 29 Aug 2005 15:15:08 -0700 > ShiningRay @ Nirvana> "But I haven't seen many actions of SELF development. > > I cannot find any application written in SELF. why?" Several applications have been developed in Self, but all of them part of someones's PhD thesis. Most aren't available for download and so aren't particularly visible on the net (in no particular order): Ole Agesen: Mango (A Parser Generator for Self) Albertina Lourenci: EcoDesign (CAD for architecture with tiling) James Noble: Tarraingím (A Program Animation Environment) Ivan Moore: Guru (refactoring system - http://selfguru.sourceforge.net/) Reinaldo Silveira: SelfHDL (simulation system for integrated circuits) That two of the associated texts are in Portuguese certainly doesn't help with the visibility issue. Sorry if I missed anyone. > Might as well ask why C++, Java, Visual Basic, Perl and Python are generally > used in preference to Smalltalk by most development projects. Napoleon (among others) said "don't attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence". While Smalltalk suffered greatly at Digitalk-ParcPlace due to incompetence over the Java hype machine, Self had to endure malice within Sun. I can understand a company wanting to be 100% behind a given technology and cutting back on the rest (think Apple and the Newton for an example) and the core Self team was actually allowed to linger on for a couple of years before being relocated to the Java group. But on the marketing side I was very surprised at the hostile reaction of some Sun people at the mention of Self (well, after explaining what it was since they hadn't heard of it before). Only after 2000 did things become more reasonable at Sun and development of Self and variations was restarted and now you have things like Fortress. They are no longer counting on a "one language to rule them all" future. > One issue with Self is the lack of either a commercial IDE with major vendor > support or a Squeak-like open source development project for the language and IDE. > Self has always resembled more a research project than a serious attempt at a > production-ready development platform. I don't understand - Sun wasn't able to utterly kill Self in 1995 because they *had* previously released it all as open source. A major problem was that you needed a Sparc workstation to use it. I bought an Ultra 5 in 1998 just to run it but am probably the only one in the world who would do that. Several attempts to port it to x86 Linux in the 1990s didn't get very far as the VM was a very large C++ program. Squeak's design was in part a reaction to these problems. Only in 2000 did Sun decide to release a Mac port that had been done quite a while before and this refactored code finally did get ported to the PC a little later. The Sparc is still the best machine on which to run Self, however. Self has its share of bugs but no more than Squeak, in my experience. And while StrongTalk was supposed to bring Self's technologies to a production quality system I don't think they did produce a vast improvement. -- Jecel

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Re: [Q] Maui, can I run example or demo?
by Chris Muller 30 Aug '05

30 Aug '05

Greetings, sorry for the trouble you had. I have now fixed this. Please try loading Maui-cmm.87.mcz. Here are some tips to get you started on a basic file-manager. Open up a browser on FileDirectory and drag its class-side #default message onto the desktop. Then click on it to run the message. The little square box that appears is the result of the message, the #default instance of FileDirectory. You may drag this out onto the desktop. Now drag the instance-side #entries message onto this (before dropping, make sure it shows the green outline rectangle of where it will drop). Click on this message; a collection of entries appears in their "iconic" form. Change any ONE of them to the "Small" view ("beSmall" on the context menu) so that we may drag some messages into it. While still hovered over the one you just made small, press "b" to browse its hierarchy. DirectoryEntry pops up. Drag #name and #fileSize to the one you made small. Now Shift+click for its tool menu and select "as list entry". Finally, right-click on the actual Collection object, carefully getting outside that black border (its ScrollPane or something) but still on the Collection so that it is outlined in green (this part is a little tricky), and select "elements view | list entry". As you see, you have the beginnings of a "file-manager" very quickly. You can now remember this view by Shift+right click and select "manage views...". A dialog pops up letting you name this view. Any object may assume any previously remembered view at any time. I'm sure you will have questions, feel free to ask.. Regards, Chris --- Sungjin Chun <chunsj(a)embian.com> wrote: > Hi, > > I'm trying to create some remove file system client in Squeak. My > previous version is FileList like thing(which is written in Objective- > C in Mac OS X) but this time I want to use different approach like > NakedObjects framework. It seems that Maui is related to this(am I > wrong?) But I cannot install Maui using SqueakMap(or Monticello, it > wants addTransferMorphSelector: method but my image, both 3.8 and > 3.9a does not have this method). > > Can anyone let me know how to install Maui, and is there any example/ > demo using Maui? > > Thanks in advance. > > PS) > Sorry if you see this message in squeak mailling list too. I do not > intent to cross post this message. Just I do not know where should I > post this question. > >

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short squeaksource downtime
by Marcus Denker 30 Aug '05

30 Aug '05

Hello, The machine that runs squeaksouce (kilana) has a problem that requires replacment. Therefore, we will have a short (5-10min) downtime soon today. Marcus

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[Q] Maui, can I run example or demo?
by Sungjin Chun 30 Aug '05

30 Aug '05

Hi, I'm trying to create some remove file system client in Squeak. My previous version is FileList like thing(which is written in Objective- C in Mac OS X) but this time I want to use different approach like NakedObjects framework. It seems that Maui is related to this(am I wrong?) But I cannot install Maui using SqueakMap(or Monticello, it wants addTransferMorphSelector: method but my image, both 3.8 and 3.9a does not have this method). Can anyone let me know how to install Maui, and is there any example/ demo using Maui? Thanks in advance.

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Re: OmniBase problem with Squeak3.8
by Jim Guo 30 Aug '05

30 Aug '05

Sorry for every one. I tried again to find that the problem only occurs when OmniBase is loaded into a seaside 2.5 image but not in Squeak 3.8. Now I load Seaside into a 3.8 image instead. Thanks! -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

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Smalltalk and Self
by 曹力 30 Aug '05

30 Aug '05

I see Self has simplified some concepts in Smalltalk and introduced prototype-based programming. It seems that SELF is even more elegant than Smalltalk. But I haven't seen many actions of SELF development. I cannot find any application written in SELF. why? However, Squeak uses its Morphic graphics system. ---------------------------- ShiningRay @ Nirvana http://www.nirvanastudio.org http://herald.seu.edu.cn/blog/shiningray

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Movie of Avi's Presentation to Vancouver LISP UG
by Ken Causey 30 Aug '05

30 Aug '05

On the 25th Avi presented Seaside to the Vancouver LISP user's group. The presentation was recorded. For more information see http://bc.tech.coop/blog/050826.html I've setup a bittorrent to download the video http://www.squeak.org/~kencausey/lv200508/seaside.mov.torrent Ken

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Help! ByteString is out of control
by Jason Rogers 29 Aug '05

29 Aug '05

I have an image that is serving up logFiles using Seaside and Comanche. It has been steadily growing in size. It's now up to 49+MB. Recently it started hanging. I have been able to run a SpaceTally on it and found that 33.1+MB are used for instances of ByteString. I haven't been able to track down all 99000+ instances, but I am almost sure that some of them are supposed to be temporary and are not getting garbageCollected. Has anyone else seen something similar to this? -- Jason Rogers "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." Galatians 2:20

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[ANN] 3.9a6684
by Marcus Denker 29 Aug '05

29 Aug '05

Hi, New version available... Highlights of this release: -> Hernan Tylim's great Preference Browser -> Monticello now loads patches when updating from source.squeakfoundation.org More complete list of changes: ------------------------------------------ -> register conflictchecker in FileList -> integrated method from ToolBuilder-Spec -> Change Set: AlphaNumUID -> Change Set: MakeArrows-sps -> Bugfix: use isDoit for testing doit selector -> comment for #openMorphicProject -> remove class SyntaxTestMethods. -> remove class for the proxyeditor -> categorize all uncategorized methods of package system Change Set: DecompileTree Date: 30 January 2005 Author: Dean Tribble, Alexandre Bergel Allow a single method to be properly decompiled. Change Set: PreferredKeyboardPosition-fbs Date: 7 January 2005 Author: Frank Shearar Update 5994 included a bunch of methods with badly spelled names. This changeset corrects those spellings Change Set: LayoutFrameReorg-fbs Date: 17 January 2005 Author: Frank Shearar This changeset simply moves a bunch of unclassified methods of LayoutFrame class into the instance creation protocol. 0001516: [ENH] FlapTab performance improvement Description Michael Latta <lattam(a)mac.com>: "When working with some performance tests I noticed that FlapTab was consuming too much time repositioning itself when morphs in the world view resized. The attached change list cuts the time for FlapTab>>ownerChanged by about 33%. With 9 tabs on my image it amounted to a 3% overall improvement. The changes involve testing for position changes before making them so it does not reposition to the same location, and using symbols rather than strings, and == rather than collection>>includes:. Change Set: FTPMultiLineResponseFix-nk Date: 19 January 2005 Author: Ned Konz The FTP protocol (RFC959), allows for multiple lines responses to commands. If a response is multi-line, the fourth character of the first line is a $- and the last line repeats the numeric code but the code is followed by a space. This CS fixes our inability to deal with such responses. Change Set: HTTPProxyPrefs-hpt Date: 10 December 2004 Author: Hernan Tylim This changeset is part of the Preferences Refactorings. The idea is to start moving all the user preferences and settings that are currently dispersed on the image to the Preferences class to be Preference instances. For more info look into the PrefViews-hpt preamble. The changes present on this .cs are simple refactorings on HTTPSocket to make it use getter and setter to access to the http proxy info, which will be stored on Preferences instead of class variables. Change Set: 6681PhonemeRecognizeMorph-dd Date: 28 August 2005 Author: Dominique Dutoit Remove the hard-coded bounds and tell the morph to resize itself if its content doesn't fit. Change Set: WindowColorPrefs-hpt Date: 8 December 2004 Author: Hernan Tylim This changeset is part of the big Preferences refactoring that started on 3.8 with PrefViews-hpt, and PrefViewsRegistry-hpt. On these previous changesets we prepared Squeak to use Preference instances to store any type of preferences, not only boolean. This changeset will move where squeak stores its window colors preference to regular Preference instances, so they will be editable from the new PreferenceBrowser Change Set: TimeProfileFullMethodNames-efc Date: 27 August 2005 Author: Eddie Cottongim TimeProfileBrowser was truncating method names making it a real pain to use on long selectors. This turned out to be a bug; MessageTally creates new instances of itself to do its work but fails to pass along the length preferences, and uses a short default length. This changeset makes it pass the length preference down.

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[ANN] Kabungu - a Squeak dependency engine (pre)
by Michal 29 Aug '05

29 Aug '05

hi all - I'd like to announce an early alpha version of a dependency-resolution system for squeak packages. It has now reached the stage where it passes tests for multiple dependencies, conflicting dependencies, circular dependencies and dependencies limited to a particular distribution/universe. I have also succesfully loaded packages into a fresh Squeak, with prerequisites automatically taken care of. To see it in action, load Kabungu from SqueakMap in Squeak 3.7 or 3.8. For best results, also load Monticello. Then: 1. install SmallBlog by opening the 'SqueakMap Package Loader' and choosing 'install' in the menu for SmallBlog (or by evaluating: Kabungu current install: 'SmallBlog'). Installing SmallBlog will ask you if it is ok to install the YAXO prerequisite, and if yes, it will download and install both packages. Note that 2. install Seaside it will ask you which 'web server' you want to install, since Seaside depends on a web server. If you choose KomHttpServer, Kabungu will detect that there is a chain of dependencies Seaside -> KomHttpServer -> KomServices -> Dynamic Bindings, and will ask you if it is ok to install all of these. If you agree, it will download and install them. There is some hitch about some older dependency on gk.1 -- that's a bug in the packaging of comanche) 3. install VMMaker in a 3.7 image and in a 3.8 image. note that in 3.8 it will install version 3.8b3 while in a 3.7 image it will automatically attempt to install version 3.7b6 (but the VMMaker for 3.7 seems somewhat broken). I haven't entered the dependencies for any other package, so (1-2) above are the only cases that will work for now. I will enter more dependencies soon - if you want an easy way to help, send me dependencies for packages you care about by filling in the #basicDependencies method. Obviously this is an early version with rough edges everywhere and many functionalities missing (the result of a couple of days of coding), but looking at the previous discussions of dependencies on this list, I think that the design of Kabungu satisfies most of the points raised there. I will try to post a description of its general design shortly, in the meantime enjoy! Michal

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