Squeak-dev October 2006

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175 participants
305 discussions

RE: Squeak on the Nokia 770 (touches on old iamges, Morphic, SM, wxWidgets, and more!)
by Welch, Ronald P (CSC) (US SSA) 05 Oct '06

05 Oct '06

Hi Aaron, Welcome back! I am wondering, have you looked at Tweak as an alternative to wxWidgets on the 770? I know virtually nothing about the relative speed of Tweak compared to Morphic or wxWindows on machines with "limited" resources, so this may well be an ignorant question, but I am curious. Ron -----Original Message----- From: squeak-dev-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Reichow Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:20 PM To: squeak-dev mailling list Subject: Squeak on the Nokia 770 (touches on old iamges, Morphic, SM,wxWidgets, and more!) Hola everyone! First... Hi! I'm back! I've not been on the list for a year or two, lots of stuff going on. Things have died back some, so I'm going to be getting back into Squeak finally! I am going to start by helping out with this new documentation initiative, working on Morphic tutorials. Now for Squeak on the 770... As someone else pointed out, I have a Nokia 770 now. It's an awesome little device, with one major flaw: a 220 MHz CPU. Now, I've used Squeak on PDAs with similar CPUs- 206 MHz StrongARMs in a PDA like the iPAQ 3650/3150. Morphic was usable under Squeak 2.8 and to a lesser extent 3.0. When I was using PDAs that slow, 3.2+ was never really tried, because it was a lot harder to shrink those images to a small enough size. The iPAQ I used then had 16 MB of RAM, so I was dealing with images of 6 MB or smaller. A lot of folks seem to be surprised that I wasn't using MVC back then- I've always used Morphic on my PDAs. I usually sacrificed some features in newer images to use an older Squeak with Morphic. Squeak 2.8 is very fast, capable and useful- not perfect, but it isn't something that belongs only in a museum of computer archeology. However, Squeak has gotten a lot slower in recent versions. I personally haven't used an image newer than 3.4 or 3.6 on any WinCE or Linux-based PDA, but if Squeak got slower between 3.4/3.6 and 3.9g, then I imagine it is way too slow. When I say "Squeak is slow" in this context I mean the way Morphic feels as a user, not that the results of 0 tinyBenchmarks has been getting slower over time. This includes actions like the time it takes for a window to redraw it self after you've resized it and gone mouseUp; the framerate at which Morphs are redrawn when being dragged; the time it takes for a menu to pop up; the time it takes for a button to register and pushed. As a result, a project I am planning on persuing is getting wxWidgets/Squeak to work on the 770. I'd really like to see this happen. I personally don't mind Morphic one bit- I prefer it in a lot of ways to a "regular" GUI toolkit. But, it may get us the UI speed we need. Then again, it may not. I'm not sure how feasible this is, but I'll find out when I have the development environment I need. Until wxWidgets/Squeak is ported to the 770, or until something miraculous happens with Morphic or the VM, I plan on running older versions of Squeak on any PDA, just as a matter of neccesity. I'm undecided what version- it'll depend on what kind of performance I get on the 770. Until recently, I was using 3.4, mainly because it could access SqueakMap. However, SM no longer works on anything older than 3.8, so I will certainly move back to at least 3.2, possible 2.8 considering the slowness of the Nokia 770's CPU. Like someone else mentioned, some basic work has been done and it does run on the 770. See: http://tech.inhelsinki.nl/2006-08-29/ However, I have no copy of Squeak for the 770 right now- the person did the work hasn't shared a binary yet, though he said he'd send me one eventually. I'd compile it myself, but I've no Linux/x86 machine for running the 770 SDK. One thing I need is access to a Linux machine via SSH for hosting the gcc cross-compiler for the Nokia 770. If possible, an x86 machine would be preferable. I have a PPC OS X machine at home, but that's it. If anyone would be willing to hook me up with access to a machine with the requisite software installed, that would be really awesome! Please email me if you can help. Well... I plan on being active on the list again, so I doubt this is the last you'll see of me. If you'd like to discuss Squeak, please stop by the Squeak IRC channel- #squeak on irc.freenode.net. Contrary to the ideas some people have of IRC/chat, we have some very productive conversations there, in addition to being a place where Squeakers interact socially. Regards, Aaron (celebrating his triumphant return to the squeak-dev list... :D ) revaaron(a)bitquabit.com || rev in #squeak on irc.freenode.net "Liberty will not descend to a people, a people must raise themselves to Liberty." -- Emma Goldman

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SqueakMap Server Back Up
by Ken Causey 05 Oct '06

05 Oct '06

I've brought the SqueakMap server back up. Note that someone was updating something in the map at around 14:20 UTC today and that's when it all went wrong. I'm pretty sure that your update was lost so whoever you are you will want to check that. Ken

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[Io] RE: Web Clients (was Re: Monticello authentication methods?)
by David Faught 05 Oct '06

05 Oct '06

Todd Blanchard wrote: >I've decided I like SWHttpClient because, while it has LOT of >classes, it is extremely well factored, does parallel fetching, and >has proxy/auth/cookie support. This package does seem to be better in many ways than the older code, but it does NOT support proxy authentication, which is a subject near and dear to my heart. I was not able to use the old harvesting tool BFAV(2) because of this. See Mantis Squeak items #912 and #1169. I'm sure that there was a similar reported issue for BFAV, but I didn't find it just now.

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call for board meeting agenda item suggestions
by Craig Latta 05 Oct '06

05 Oct '06

http://people.squeakfoundation.org/article/64.html (Please respond there.) thanks! -C -- Craig Latta http://netjam.org/resume

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SqueakMap down
by karl 05 Oct '06

05 Oct '06

Is SqueakMap down ? Karl

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Fwd: ESUG Smalltalk DVD updated
by Marcus Denker 05 Oct '06

05 Oct '06

Begin forwarded message: > From: Marcus Denker <denker(a)iam.unibe.ch> > Date: 5. Oktober 2006 16:48:33 GMT+02:00 > To: ESUG ESUG <esug-list(a)lists.esug.org> > Cc: esugcd-announce(a)lists.esug.org > Subject: ESUG Smalltalk DVD updated > > Hello, > > The ESUG Smalltalk DVD has been updated. > > http://www.esug.org/resourcesdocsmedia/esugdvd/esugsmalltalkdvd/ > > This is an updated version of the DVD handed out at ESUG 06. It > contains > all slides from the ESUG presentations and the following systems: > > > VisualWorks NC > VisualAge Smalltalk > Dolphin > Smalltalk/X > GnuSmalltalk > F-Script > Squeak 3.9 and Croquet > SmalltalkMT > Ambrai Smalltalk Beta > Gemstone > Strongtalk (with vm source!) > Videos, Books, Tutorials > Self > .....over 4 GB of Smalltalk! > > The DVD is now available via swiftcd/paypal for $9.98 (worldwide > shipping included!). > > In addition to that, the Media DVD has been updated, too: > > http://www.esug.org/resourcesdocsmedia/esugdvd/esugmediadvd/ > This contains all the videos from http://www.esug.org/ > resourcesdocsmedia/onlinesmalltalkvideos/ > > > Marcus >

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Re: Squackers, Tenth-Birthday-of-Squeak edition - Fireworks!!
by Bill Schwab 05 Oct '06

05 Oct '06

Brad, ======================= I always thought how objects communicated to be interesting. I think of water or air as both a way to touch, communicate and connect with other objects, and at the same time, a carrier of objects to remote destinations. There is just something wonderful about the flow between real-life objects. Water can exist in many forms and it can carry objects to many places - it has a way of getting in the way of humans; and it's hard to control, no matter how hard we try... certainly more redundant than the Internet! Same with air, it can carry sound waves that could be music or noise - of which the quality is listener dependent :-) It can have disastrous effects too - like carrying deadly spores. ======================= Common internet protocols carry malware, and even the occasional Microsoft service pack =:0 ======================= So, while I think encapsulated objects in software design is productive and fun, I don't think we spend enough time inventing new ways to communicate between objects. Or, at least I don't spend enough time thinking about it. Most likely, I'm naive about it. ======================= Far be it from me to call another Smalltalker naive. It might help to think of the way atoms and molecules interact, which (chemically at least) is via electron clouds, and a few other field effects. All of the other stuff is higher level, which one would model using objects and messages vs. extending the VM and details of message sending - at least IMHO. With that said, note the following: http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/1998-October/017019.… which puts you in good company. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bills(a)anest4.anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029

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Special image for Web Development (3.9)
by Petr Fischer 05 Oct '06

05 Oct '06

Hi, is 3.9 image for WEB developers (http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st/seaside/pier) available for download? pf

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Using MessageTally primer by andreas
by stephane ducasse 05 Oct '06

05 Oct '06

https://lists.wisc.edu/read/messages?id=1411189

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Modularity or: Open source turns on all the available brain power, full blast, on every problem, challenge, or opportunity
by Klaus D. Witzel 05 Oct '06

05 Oct '06

"Putting Open Source Development Under the Scope" Linux Insider (10/02/06); Lyman, Jay Quote: Computer science researchers at the University of California Davis will use a $750,000 grant from the National Science Foundation to examine the development of open source systems such as the Apache Web server, PosterSQL, and the Python scripting language. The suspicion is that open source systems succeed where commercial proprietary programs fail because they avoid the developmental process where the speed of production is determined by the slowest contributor. The case of Mozilla suggests that the modularity implemented by open source systems increase volunteerism, because anyone can contribute at any time. UC Davis lead researcher and computer science professor Premkuma Devanbu says, "The belief in the open source software community is that open source turns on all the available brain power, full blast, on every problem, challenge, or opportunity." The purpose of the study is to put such ideas to the test, in order to get empirical evidence. Many stress that open source development benefits from the fact that contributors are not motivated by getting paid, and can choose what they work on. As no meetings and the lowest level of synchronization are necessary when using open source software, development can occur at parallel levels simultaneously, rather than requiring each step in the process to occur sequentially. The researchers will monitor emails, message boards, and bug reports for insights into what makes open source development projects successful. Devanbu says the case of Linux shows that modularity improves the quality of the software developed, and that "good design allows implementation to proceed with maximum parallelism and minimum synchronization and coordination." Unquote. - http://www.technewsworld.com/story/53357.html /Klaus

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