Squeak-dev November 2007

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142 participants
155 discussions

64 bit vm and image for MacOSX 10.5.x Leopard?
by Peter William Lount 27 Nov '07

27 Nov '07

Hi, Has anyone created a 64 bit Squeak VM and image for Intel MacOSXdot5 Leopard? If so where is it? I couldn't find it at http://squeakvm.org/squeak64. Is the latest mac vm both 32 bit and 64 bit? How does the mac vm get created? How is that different than creating a unix vm or a pc vm? Is there a 64 bit image created for each published image? If not, why not? If not then how about putting a menu option so it's easy to generate a 64 bit image (or 32 bit image for that matter) from the current image? That would be cool to be able to have it transform in both directions... and to be easy for novices without having to think about the process... which is really only for us uber technies anyhow. MacOSX 10.5 is now 64 bits. We need to show off the 64 bit smalltalk to the world. Can it be done with one FAT binary or with two apps? Thanks, Peter

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KDE relicensing
by Hilaire Fernandes 27 Nov '07

27 Nov '07

Interesting to look at http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/KDE_Relicensing

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Question on copying methods.
by Jordi Delgado 27 Nov '07

27 Nov '07

Hi, My name is Jordi Delgado and I am currently working, on my spare time, on the translation of a Squeak application to Catalan (yes, I know that I would need to translate all of Squeak to call it a real translation, but this is far from what my spare time allows me to do). I am working with version 3dot8gamma update #6662, not with version 3dot9. Unfortunately, this is not optional. I would be very grateful if someone could give an understandable explanation of what follows (I've tried hard to make sense of it, but I'm afraid I don't know yet enough Smalltalk, or Squeak): Let us assume I want to copy a method in a class, but changing its name. For example, in version 3dot9 I would do: Number addAndClassifySelector: #absolute withMethod: (Number compiledMethodAt: #abs) inProtocol: #arithmetic notifying: nil to copy the abs method with the name 'absolute' in category 'arithmetic' of class 'Number'. And that would work as intended. I mean, browsing class Number, protocol arithmetic, one can see the method 'absolute' with the following source code: Number>>absolute "Answer a Number that is the absolute value (positive magnitude) of the receiver" self < 0 ifTrue: [^ self negated] ifFalse: [^ self] that's it, exactly what was expected. The problem with version 3dot8gamma is that doing the same thing, one does not get the same result. What is obtained is a method of name 'absolute', according to the browser, but the code is: Number>>abs "Answer a Number that is the absolute value (positive magnitude) of the receiver" self < 0 ifTrue: [^ self negated] ifFalse: [^ self] that is, the correct method but the wrong name (it keeps 'abs' instead of changing it to 'absolute', as it should do). One still can edit the source code but with a previous warning, since the names (the one in the code and the one in the browser) should be the same. Somehow I don't think this is a question for the beginners list, so I submit it here. Please, let me apologize in advance if this is a silly question. Thanks a lot in advance for your answers. And thanks a lot for this list, it is a valuable source to learn Smalltalk. Bests Jordi

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[jobs] Aida/Web developer for a CRM in Slovenia
by Janko Mivšek 27 Nov '07

27 Nov '07

Hello Smalltalkers, I'm doing a preliminary search for a developer of a brand new SugarCRM like CRM (Customer Relationship Management), based on Aida/Web web framework. What is interesting to mention is that this CRM will be open-sourced from the start and that the developer will work and actively contribute back into Smalltalk and Aida communities while help starting a CRM one too. Idea is to exploit the Smalltalk and OO features in full to make a really good CRM, with speed, manageability and expandability as main features. CRM will be built with an active help of a company specialized in sales management, using CRM as a tool and have therefore a lot of knowledge in the field. They are already using the open-source SugarCRM derivative vtiger, and they like to continue the open-source tradition, but on a better technology. So, I think Smalltalk in general has a great opportunity here to show what is capable! Few more info: - Target Smalltalks: VisualWorks, Gemstone, Squeak - Language: Slovenian preferred, English - Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia - Timeframe: starting 1Q 2008, first version 3Q 2008 If anyone is interested please contact me privately. Janko -- Janko Mivšek AIDA/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si

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Give one Get one OLPC extended through December 31st
by Klaus D. Witzel 27 Nov '07

27 Nov '07

Just in case you lucky U.S. folks have as jet not ordered, here's the news - http://www.laptopgiving.org/en/index.php Happy XO everybody :) /Klaus

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Maintaining the image ( from Re: [Mantisk 0004531]: etc, )
by Jerome Peace 27 Nov '07

27 Nov '07

Maintaining the image ( from Re: [Mantisk 0004531]: etc, from Edgar to myself.) Hi Edgar, You have my sympathies, and whatever you decide I will respect your wishes. I think this note needs to be shared more widely than between the two of us. It becomes part of the case against the decision to use MC1 to maintain the image. Or at least against it being a precursor to maintaining the image. (Or a case against maintaining morphic. Sigh.) It might make more sense to update the image with changesets and then at some point snapshot the MC packages. This update the package then build the image breaks down when dealing with large packages or even worse changes that cut across packages. Some further thought needs to be put in as to exactly what we are doing; the contexts we are doing them in and how the various goals and forces interact. As always thanks for your service and friendship. Cheers, -Jer --- "Edgar J. De Cleene" <edgardec2001(a)yahoo.com.ar> wrote: > El 11/25/07 6:54 PM, > "box-admins(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org" > <box-admins(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> escribió: > > > > > On 11-25-07 21:54, wiz sent you this reminder > about: > > > > http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=4531 > > > > Hi Edgar, > > Here is another one that fell thru the cracks. > > > > It should have been fixed in 3.9 but a the > duplicate complaint made me look > > and > > it has not yet gotten into the 7155 image. > > > > So this should be taken care of so smalland theme > users can find us new bugs. > > > > Cheers, service, and curiosity, --Jer > > Amigo: > > I wish end the release and move to a less painful > way ( change sets ) or to > a not proved way but maybe in the long run better as > DeltaStreams. > > I very reluctant to do updates touching Morph, don't > wish move 1.3 Mb up and > down for changes like this (only a method). > > The worst is people using 3.10 don't use Etoys or > any small land or OLPC > relate, they want web and development. > > And the OLPC and Small Land don't wish play with us. ??? Is that actually true? Smallland isn't still developing and I don't get responses when I try to contact Diego but clearly they must be doing something. OLPC is under constant deadline pressure. But Bert and Yoshiki write the list often. AFAIK no one has disowned the idea of cooperation. The forces of time and the necessity to focus on other things seem to get in the way. > > So , why I should do ? > Um squeak should not have unimplemented calls. Ones that get in peoples way are particularly obnoxious. We have had two separate complaints about this. So something that changes the image should be done. The fix makes the least assumptions about what else should happen. This does not mean that it must be 3dot10 that chooses to fix it. Maybe it needs to be scheduled for 3dot11. Talk to Ralph and find out his thoughts. Meanwhile I am copying this reply to the squeakdev list. I bet we get a lot of opinions from that. :) > Very different is if I could do using a real change > sets. > > Edgar > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

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Regarding the license change situation...
by Hilaire Fernandes 26 Nov '07

26 Nov '07

It may be helpful to have an updated list of the code still posing problem: relicensed by signed agreement or rewritten or deleted A ratio of the relicensed code: in term of signed agreement and also in term of line of code (don't know if it is doable). For example it could be very encouraging to realize that 99% of the code is already relicensed. Is there a page in the Squeak wiki showing the work in progress to the public and the free software community particularly? Hilaire

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Q: incremental garbage collection overhead
by alain rastoul 25 Nov '07

25 Nov '07

Hi I'm trying to load data from a sql server database (hundred thousands rows) into Heaps with ODBC/FFI and I noticed that most of the time is spent in incremental garbage collection (about 80 to 90% of the running time of the load process!). I will look at the ODBCResultSet implementation to limit IdentityDictionnary/Row allocation by working with preallocated arrays but this will solve only one of my problems. I was wondering if there is a way to limit incremental collections by running them only when a certain amount of memory was allocated, I found setGCBiasToGrowGCLimit in SystemDictionnary (Smalltalk setGCBiasToGrowGCLimit: 16*1024*1024). but it doesn't work and popup a "a primitive has failed" error. Is it the right method ? Another question about garbage collection is the overhead of loaded data in objects for the VM (hundred MB) : is there a way to know if incremental collection is bloated by those data or to know when they are moved to old space ? Any pointers, ideas or links are welcome Thanks Regards, Alain

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Universe and pre-/postload
by Norbert Hartl 25 Nov '07

25 Nov '07

Hi, I'm maintaining a package which needs to have something loaded before and after the main fileIn. At the moment this is done by a sar file which is referenced in universe. Do I have to produce a sar file to accomplish this or is there another way? (without having 3 packages and the necessary dependencies) thanks, Norbert

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to the owner of www.squeak.org
by merlyn＠stonehenge.com 24 Nov '07

24 Nov '07

the link to squeak-dev (Damien's image) goes to the "this directory is not being updated any more". Please fix. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 <merlyn(a)stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/> Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

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