I agree and find the "us" vs "them" attitude to be unhealthy. One should be able to define oneself without comparison to others.
One better attitude is to consider complementary and not "vs." e.g. the comparation is not valid.
There is not right/wrong answers when the question is incorrect.
Smalltalkers do not need to answer why we has had our history to people that do not have a history yet.
Each time we compare smalltalk to new formulas (new languages, new platforms, new ooxxx++ -now more object oriented- ) we loose our small resources trying to reformulate our peculiarities to be something we are not.
Why do not try to invest our time and efforts in the undeveloped direction of Object Technology (a la smalltalk) ? as was proposed at first years of Squeak project.
We are too near the sea because we are making the smalltalk globe go down.
Focusing the on the peculiarities of smalltalk way (not the tools, nor the environment, nor it contents, but the activities smalltalk make possible) can be more valuable and will make people reflect about what they are really doing when they write "the same" in other syntax...
Each time we compare, we loose. Each time we put ourselves in front of another alternative (for others) we loose.
IMHO, it is better to feel "complementary to the normal people"; e.g. preserve our personality (a model we built/grow with smalltalk, not only a POV). As any complement we do not compete with other proposals for "system" development (I must say here system definition). Smalltalk IS marginal, and it is a lot of oportunities at the margins in this "empty world" [*].
have fun, and preserve our way, Ale.
[*] As a by product of OO method, any de-composition of the world produce more vacum (uncertanty) that definitions.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven W Riggins" mailinglists@geeksrus.com To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list" squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Nothing much [was: what is holding back Smalltalk?]
I agree and find the "us" vs "them" attitude to be unhealthy.
One should be able to define oneself without comparison to others.
On Nov 21, 2008, at 12:23 PM, Claus Kick wrote:
Klaus D. Witzel wrote:
Me thinks that the Smalltalk community is healthy and vibrant--it is "just" a community form one would not expect for Ruby or Python or Perl, etc. To get impression of my impression take a look at what *actually* happened during the *recent* months:
Why would one not expect this community for Ruby or Python or Perl? Could you please explain what you mean, for this puzzles me ...