Towards 3.9.1 . Away from What?
Hi Keith,
Thanks for your reply.
Keith Hodges keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk Mon May 7 01:34:35 UTC 2007
Towards 3.9.1 . Away from What?
I watch all of Keith's efforts with wonder and
some
trepidation.
wonder I like!
Your welcome. You have earned it.
He has very bold plans and when kept after (by
others)
may do an reasonable job of coding.
He is also off acting on his own on what he
thinks is
needed.
Not really true, someone said 3.10 is about
process,
not features. The 'process' element of 3.10 has had no discussion, specification or roadmapping! 3.10 Itself has been progressing under Edgars 'expert, but manual' direction, which I have been monitoring and supporting.
Cool.
< some stuff clipped here to keep the topic on protocol>
I see what he is doing as undermining the efforts
of
the 3.10 team. And I wonder why this is.
Undermining 3.10?
I didn't say you were not contributing. I merely stated a personal perception. As simon pointed out the question pertains as much to the perception as to the undermining.
<snip>
Is the November revolution happening in May?
What november revolution, is there a plan?
Sorry. Squeak lore. Search the squeak-dev archives for the folklore. For a while gokr was fond of them.
When did 3.8.1 come out? Just after 3.9 if I
recall. I
might be wrong about that though.
3.8.1 is a branch owned and maintained by squeakland folk AFAIK. Some changes from it were folded back into 3.9. The point is it has an offical entity that maintains it.
What he is proposing is creating a branch of
Squeak
under his release control and to his taste.
Actually I have been talking with Stephane all
along
about all sorts of aspects of this process. Stephane has held back, in order to let 3.10 roll. But if he would like to take the opportunity
to
help put some icing on his 3.9 cake then why not.
Steph is part of the board. And he is not the whole board. Something offical should be said about your efforts and formalities should be observered if necessary.
He is appropriating the version number 3.9.1.
Which
portrays an intention for his release to be a successor to 3.9 but close to it.
Now I question whether an independent developer
of
relatively short standing in the squeak community should have the right to give an official
sounding
designation to his release.
Question away: the way I see it is I have no more
or
less right than anyone else, until someone objects and it goes political, or someone else has a better idea.
Shouldn't the version numbers of squeak belong to
the
squeak foundation and squeak board? In other words it comes close to trademark infringement.
Read the website it says, "This is the site for collaborating on the specification for 3.9.1 (Pending objections, this
is
the de-facto 3.9.1, the future of squeak 3.9)"
First, please note the word COLLABORATING, its not about what I want in 3.9.1. It is and always has been something I have attempted to facilitate the community to engage in. The fact
that
few others have actually engaged in it, (and I have invited them)
is
not my fault, nor does it make me a loner at heart, just a loner by default.
The "Essential Fixes" page are some of what I need
to
support this process that is used to generate 3.9.1 itself from
this
website.
You may think I am being rather forward in saying
"this
is the de-facto 3.9.1", but this bug fixed version has been sitting
on
that website for 2/3 months now and nothing has been happening to
make
it happen. It needs eaither a) Someone to push it through, to do
it
and make it official, or b) Somone to object and can the idea altogether so that it becomes a mini-fork.
Yes, Exactly.
I left both options open in the
above statement. I am being more forward now to provike action one way
or
the other.
So far we have a) Stephane and b) Jerome
Keith has the power to do what he will. But
calling
it 3.9.1 implies a blessing for his actions that
he
has not formally asked for nor formally received.
Some
I have never called it 3.9.1 without adding a
caveat
"proposed" , "experimental", or "unofficial"
controls should be put on what he calls it less
his
efforts be taken (by those outside) as authorized
and
encourgaged by the offical board.
Or he should be given that authorization by the
board
to go ahead. Right now the situation is like
having a
loose cannon aboard a ship. And people should
look at
it in that manner.
I find that insulting actually.
Emails may seem to more insulting than they were intended. My intention is to provoke to board to action so that the status of things become clear.
You are not the situation you are Keith. I know the difference. :-)
The name and whether it is wise for the community to let you use it is what needs to be tied down. I don't make that judgement. I just point out that one is needed.
My perception is clouded by distance and ignorance and I may be wrong about the loose cannon. Still when one percieves something like that it is best to act before its proven correct or not.
The fact is that I dont have a project I am working
on
or any hidden agenda. I am aiming to serve the squeak community
by
developing some stuff that is needed.
In general I am an initiating, ideas sort of
person,
and I value and need support from finishing, relentless checking
type
of people such as yourself.
It would be helpful if those finishing relentless checking, dotting i's and crossing t's sort of people contributed to
helping
me where I am weak, rather than shooting me down.
It would be helpful if initiating, ideas sort of people slowed down long enough to check and finish what they initiate. Self funded time of others must be used considerately.
Thanks for the stimulating reply.
Yours in curiosity and service, --Jerome Peace (Bug Tracker)
P.S. If your talking to Steph you are deeply involved in the politics. :-) Cheers, -Jer
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Dear Jerome
Steph is part of the board. And he is not the whole board.
I have discussed technical issues with Steph on occassion, rather than as a representative of the board.
Something offical should be said about your efforts and formalities should be observered if necessary.
it 3.9.1 implies a blessing for his actions that
he
has not formally asked for nor formally received.
I have not asked for this "blessing", for two reasons, the first is basically lack of confidence. The second is that due to personal circumstances I am unable to commit to anything. I may be called away at short notice to other more important matters. Squeaking is my own excercise in non-mindless escapism, in my otherwise stressful life. Another factor was the total unreliability of my computer equipment (now resolved) which might have removed me from the net at a moments notice. For these reasons I dont feel able to commit to any official anything.
My solution to this is to put my ideas up in an open way on a website, and if someone cares to handle that part which I cant and officialise it then great. Hopefully that explains my modus operandi.
Unfortunately nothing like this happened, no one official has said, this is what we need, and the board appear to be purposfully low key. Someone could have said something in the last 3 months, I have refered to "unofficial 3.9.1" for a while now.
Looking at "the procedure", I wonder how many bugs are actually known and fixed without being mentioned on mantis at all!
to go ahead. Right now the situation is like
having a
loose cannon aboard a ship. And people should
look at
it in that manner.
I find that insulting actually.
Emails may seem to more insulting than they were intended. My intention is to provoke to board to action so that the status of things become clear.
You are not the situation you are Keith. I know the difference. :-)
I apologize for mis-understanding you, I was very tired after a long hard-labour shift and missed the subtlety in your wording.
The name and whether it is wise for the community to let you use it is what needs to be tied down. I don't make that judgement. I just point out that one is needed.
answered in the following email.
It would be helpful if initiating, ideas sort of people slowed down long enough to check and finish what they initiate. Self funded time of others must be used considerately.
Appreciated.
best regards
Keith
...no one official has said, this is what we need, and the board appear to be purposfully low key.
That's the release team's job; they get to make those decisions, subject to the approval of the board. If they're not doing a good job, then we should fix that.
-C
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