Just an interesting observation:
I've just been playing around with the lates 3.2gamma and some of the goodies that have been released of late...it seems that with a combination of Zurgle (for looks), Ian's Telnet/Pty emulator and OSProcess, you can now safely do completely away with any other desktop and work solely within Squeak (on Linux, at least).
The Telnet/Pty emulator is good enough to run any command-line utilities, OSProcess provides some really tight OS-level integration and Zurgle...well, Zurgle just looks fantastic.
Anyone want to write some ICCCM extensions for Squeak so it can become the worlds most extensible window manager? :)
Great work folks...Squeak just keeps getting better and better!
On Wed, 10 Jul 2002, Kevin Fisher wrote:
I've just been playing around with the lates 3.2gamma and some of the goodies that have been released of late...it seems that with a combination of Zurgle (for looks), Ian's Telnet/Pty emulator and OSProcess, you can now safely do completely away with any other desktop and work solely within Squeak (on Linux, at least).
I was doing just that on top of Mac OS X. The only thing I was leaving Squeak for was a web browser. So, I switched to Debian, figuring that OS X is overkill if all you're using is OmniWeb and Squeak. Now I'm using Squeak and Opera, and them in the same workspace, two tabs in ion. :)
Anyone want to write some ICCCM extensions for Squeak so it can become the worlds most extensible window manager? :)
Actually, a while back I was considering such a thing. Probably not a full ICCCM set to make Squeak *the* window managaer, but a handful of FFIs to allow switching X11 windows from Squeak while running another wm.
Great work folks...Squeak just keeps getting better and better!
Amen! Good to see some enthusiasm, I spend too much time on #squeak, where no one gets as pumped as I do. :P (/me ducks)
Regards, Aaron
Aaron Reichow :: UMD ACM Pres :: http://www.d.umn.edu/~reic0024/ "the profit system follows the path of least resistance and following the path of least resistance is what makes a river crooked." :: u. utah phillips
On Wed, 2002-07-10 at 11:01, Aaron J Reichow wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jul 2002, Kevin Fisher wrote:
I've just been playing around with the lates 3.2gamma and some of the goodies that have been released of late...it seems that with a combination of Zurgle (for looks), Ian's Telnet/Pty emulator and OSProcess, you can now safely do completely away with any other desktop and work solely within Squeak (on Linux, at least).
I was doing just that on top of Mac OS X. The only thing I was leaving Squeak for was a web browser. So, I switched to Debian, figuring that OS X is overkill if all you're using is OmniWeb and Squeak. Now I'm using Squeak and Opera, and them in the same workspace, two tabs in ion. :)
Do you mean to say that you had Opera running in Squeak or Squeak running in Opera or something else?
=jason
On 10 Jul 2002, Jason Rogers wrote:
On Wed, 2002-07-10 at 11:01, Aaron J Reichow wrote:
I was doing just that on top of Mac OS X. The only thing I was leaving Squeak for was a web browser. So, I switched to Debian, figuring that OS X is overkill if all you're using is OmniWeb and Squeak. Now I'm using Squeak and Opera, and them in the same workspace, two tabs in ion. :)
Do you mean to say that you had Opera running in Squeak or Squeak running in Opera or something else?
Oh, I wish I could have Opera running in Squeak. :) I am running the Ion window manager on Linux, with Squeak and Ion each in their own workspace- I can switch between them by Shift-Alt-[1|2].
Regards, Aaron
Aaron Reichow :: UMD ACM Pres :: http://www.d.umn.edu/~reic0024/ "one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws" :: m. l. king jr.
gotcha. I saw ion but I thought it was a typo for union. I have never heard of ION. I use WindowMaker and Gnome usually.
=jason
On Wed, 2002-07-10 at 12:14, Aaron J Reichow wrote:
On 10 Jul 2002, Jason Rogers wrote:
On Wed, 2002-07-10 at 11:01, Aaron J Reichow wrote:
I was doing just that on top of Mac OS X. The only thing I was leaving Squeak for was a web browser. So, I switched to Debian, figuring that OS X is overkill if all you're using is OmniWeb and Squeak. Now I'm using Squeak and Opera, and them in the same workspace, two tabs in ion. :)
Do you mean to say that you had Opera running in Squeak or Squeak running in Opera or something else?
Oh, I wish I could have Opera running in Squeak. :) I am running the Ion window manager on Linux, with Squeak and Ion each in their own workspace- I can switch between them by Shift-Alt-[1|2].
Regards, Aaron
Aaron Reichow :: UMD ACM Pres :: http://www.d.umn.edu/~reic0024/ "one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws" :: m. l. king jr.
Ion is a super snazzy window manager, with no overlapping windows. Everything is tiled, and can be controlled with only the keyboard.
http://modeemi.cs.tut.fi/~tuomv/ion/
Regards, Aaron
PS: Anyone know if there is any way I can paste into a TeletypeWindow morph? :)
Aaron Reichow :: UMD ACM Pres :: http://www.d.umn.edu/~reic0024/ "civilization is a limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities." :: mark twain
On 10 Jul 2002, Jason Rogers wrote:
gotcha. I saw ion but I thought it was a typo for union. I have never heard of ION. I use WindowMaker and Gnome usually.
=jason
On Wed, 2002-07-10 at 12:14, Aaron J Reichow wrote:
On 10 Jul 2002, Jason Rogers wrote:
On Wed, 2002-07-10 at 11:01, Aaron J Reichow wrote:
I was doing just that on top of Mac OS X. The only thing I was leaving Squeak for was a web browser. So, I switched to Debian, figuring that OS X is overkill if all you're using is OmniWeb and Squeak. Now I'm using Squeak and Opera, and them in the same workspace, two tabs in ion. :)
Do you mean to say that you had Opera running in Squeak or Squeak running in Opera or something else?
Oh, I wish I could have Opera running in Squeak. :) I am running the Ion window manager on Linux, with Squeak and Ion each in their own workspace- I can switch between them by Shift-Alt-[1|2].
Regards, Aaron
Aaron Reichow :: UMD ACM Pres :: http://www.d.umn.edu/~reic0024/ "one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws" :: m. l. king jr.
Ooops...
That should be http://modeemi.cs.tut.fi/~tuomov/ion/
Thanks for the tip!
On Wed, 2002-07-10 at 13:55, Aaron J Reichow wrote:
Ion is a super snazzy window manager, with no overlapping windows. Everything is tiled, and can be controlled with only the keyboard.
http://modeemi.cs.tut.fi/~tuomv/ion/
Regards, Aaron
PS: Anyone know if there is any way I can paste into a TeletypeWindow morph? :)
Aaron Reichow :: UMD ACM Pres :: http://www.d.umn.edu/~reic0024/ "civilization is a limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities." :: mark twain
On 10 Jul 2002, Jason Rogers wrote:
gotcha. I saw ion but I thought it was a typo for union. I have never heard of ION. I use WindowMaker and Gnome usually.
=jason
On Wed, 2002-07-10 at 12:14, Aaron J Reichow wrote:
On 10 Jul 2002, Jason Rogers wrote:
On Wed, 2002-07-10 at 11:01, Aaron J Reichow wrote:
I was doing just that on top of Mac OS X. The only thing I was leaving Squeak for was a web browser. So, I switched to Debian, figuring that OS X is overkill if all you're using is OmniWeb and Squeak. Now I'm using Squeak and Opera, and them in the same workspace, two tabs in ion. :)
Do you mean to say that you had Opera running in Squeak or Squeak running in Opera or something else?
Oh, I wish I could have Opera running in Squeak. :) I am running the Ion window manager on Linux, with Squeak and Ion each in their own workspace- I can switch between them by Shift-Alt-[1|2].
Regards, Aaron
Aaron Reichow :: UMD ACM Pres :: http://www.d.umn.edu/~reic0024/ "one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws" :: m. l. king jr.
Aaron J Reichow reic0024@d.umn.edu is claimed by the authorities to have written:
Oh, I wish I could have Opera running in Squeak. :)
Well we _sort of_ had a solution to this for exobox, though it wasn't quite ready for prime time in my opinion. It was actually intended for mozilla and involved messing with the window z-order or somesuch. It meant that mozilla would 'display through' an area in the squeak window.
A previous experiment redirected all the drawing done by mozilla to morphs, which meant that you could deconstruct the browser, but it was a bit slow.
I suspect that a plausible middle ground would be to have mozilla draw to a window that is handled as an external bitmap and just splatted onto the squeak Display like any other morph bitmap. The remaining exercise for the reader is to work out how to handle input events adequately and pass the on to the mozilla code properly.
tim
Aaron, is there some trick to getting Squeak to update the display in Ion? If so, are you willing to tell? I initially get a black screen. If I create some damage by dragging one of Ion's tabs across the window, the damaged areas get repainted with what I recognize as my Squeak workspace. If I click on Squeak's desktop to open a world menu, I don't see any effect, but if I then drag a tab across the area where the menu should be, I can choose "restore display", which does paint the whole screen in whatever size is Ion has given to Squeak. Unfortunately, it is a static painting; if I type or mouse again, I see no result until I create some damage over the area of the display that should have changed.
3.2 gamma, update 4889, Debian Linux, Intel
Given that I'm new to Ion, and given that Squeak works just fine for me in Sawfish, this is probably an Ion question, not a Squeak question. Back to Sawfish for now.
On 11 Jul 2002, Stan Heckman wrote:
Aaron, is there some trick to getting Squeak to update the display in Ion? If so, are you willing to tell? I initially get a black screen.
Given that I'm new to Ion, and given that Squeak works just fine for me in Sawfish, this is probably an Ion question, not a Squeak question. Back to Sawfish for now.
Wow! I've been getting this problem but sheepishly thought that it was my VMs problem, and not Ion's. Perhaps Ion is at fault... if that is case, I can't help you know, but I'll see what happens.
Aaron (reply to reic0024@d.umn.edu)
On Thu, 11 Jul 2002, Rev. Aaron wrote:
On 11 Jul 2002, Stan Heckman wrote:
Aaron, is there some trick to getting Squeak to update the display in Ion? If so, are you willing to tell? I initially get a black screen.
Wow! I've been getting this problem but sheepishly thought that it was my VMs problem, and not Ion's. Perhaps Ion is at fault... if that is case, I can't help you know, but I'll see what happens.
Here's one thing to try: if you can see enough of the world menu to select "appearance... > full screen on" it might just help. In full screen mode Squeak bypasses much of the WM's interference.
Ian
Switching Squeak to full screen mode in Ion (using the menus, not the command line switch) painted a white screen plus one Squeak window (the Change Sorter, I think) in a rectangle that was almost the full size of my physical screen, just a few pixels shy on the right and on the bottom. These few pixels would be exactly enough to hold the border and tabs that Ion would normally draw around the window. Reaching into this few pixel area to grab an Ion tab and sweeping that tab over this white rectangle revealed the rest of my windows, but as before, if I do anything in those windows no changes are painted to the display until I damage the region with one of Ion's tabs.
This is more of a curiosity than a problem; I'm reasonably happy with Sawfish.
Have you tried Alt+r (refresh)?
On Fri, 2002-07-12 at 08:39, Stan Heckman wrote:
Switching Squeak to full screen mode in Ion (using the menus, not the command line switch) painted a white screen plus one Squeak window (the Change Sorter, I think) in a rectangle that was almost the full size of my physical screen, just a few pixels shy on the right and on the bottom. These few pixels would be exactly enough to hold the border and tabs that Ion would normally draw around the window. Reaching into this few pixel area to grab an Ion tab and sweeping that tab over this white rectangle revealed the rest of my windows, but as before, if I do anything in those windows no changes are painted to the display until I damage the region with one of Ion's tabs.
This is more of a curiosity than a problem; I'm reasonably happy with Sawfish.
-- Stan
I did try alt-r, and it didn't appear to do anything at all. This surprised me, since the presumably equivalent "restore display" menu selection at least repainted the screen.
On 12 Jul 2002, Stan Heckman wrote:
I did try alt-r, and it didn't appear to do anything at all. This surprised me, since the presumably equivalent "restore display" menu selection at least repainted the screen.
All the evidence points to Ion stealing X events from Squeak and refusing to abide by structure changes requested by clients. (I can see why they might want to try to do this given that they're tiling everything. But, FWIW, in full-screen mode you shouldn't see *any* WM decoration whatsoever: Squeak wants to take over the whole screen.)
Aaron: If you're in a position to compile from source you could put printf()s in the event loop cases Expose, MapNotify and ConfigureNotify to see what's going on. Then again your time might be better spent explaining the problem to the Ion people so that they can fix their WM...
Ian
On Fri, 12 Jul 2002, Ian Piumarta wrote:
All the evidence points to Ion stealing X events from Squeak and refusing to abide by structure changes requested by clients. [ ... ] Aaron: If you're in a position to compile from source you could put printf()s in the event loop cases Expose, MapNotify and ConfigureNotify to see what's going on. Then again your time might be better spent explaining the problem to the Ion people so that they can fix their WM...
I can do that. I'll be out of town this weekend (yay, Thunder Bay Ontario!), but I should get to it early this week
Regards, Aaron
Stan,
If you set the "mouseOverForKeyboardFocus" preference to true, then when the mouse leaves a text pane, keyboard focus will be relinquished by the text pane, thus allowing the "desktop command keys" such as alt-r to be honored.
Alternatively, hit shift-esc ("escape to the world menu") followed by alt-r at any time, wherever the cursor is, to force a repaint.
HTH,
-- Scott
At 12:39 PM -0400 7/12/02, Stan Heckman wrote:
I did try alt-r, and it didn't appear to do anything at all. This surprised me, since the presumably equivalent "restore display" menu selection at least repainted the screen.
-- Stan
On Wed, Jul 10, 2002 at 10:01:51AM -0500, Aaron J Reichow wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jul 2002, Kevin Fisher wrote:
I've just been playing around with the lates 3.2gamma and some of the goodies that have been released of late...it seems that with a combination of Zurgle (for looks), Ian's Telnet/Pty emulator and OSProcess, you can now safely do completely away with any other desktop and work solely within Squeak (on Linux, at least).
I was doing just that on top of Mac OS X. The only thing I was leaving Squeak for was a web browser. So, I switched to Debian, figuring that OS X is overkill if all you're using is OmniWeb and Squeak. Now I'm using Squeak and Opera, and them in the same workspace, two tabs in ion. :)
:) At one time I was simply firing up Squeak full-screen instead of any window manager. With the PTY/xterm stuff I can now use Mutt and Links from Squeak quite well!
Anyone want to write some ICCCM extensions for Squeak so it can become the worlds most extensible window manager? :)
Actually, a while back I was considering such a thing. Probably not a full ICCCM set to make Squeak *the* window managaer, but a handful of FFIs to allow switching X11 windows from Squeak while running another wm.
There used to be a Scheme/Lisp window manager floating around at one time... I think it was called "GWM" or something like that. It seemed like an interesting idea (although I can't stand scheme personally). Squeak-as-a- window-manager would certainly be interesting in this respect...a sort of roundabout way to get Morphs sitting side-by-side with X11 applications.
Great work folks...Squeak just keeps getting better and better!
Amen! Good to see some enthusiasm, I spend too much time on #squeak, where no one gets as pumped as I do. :P (/me ducks)
Well, I usually lag considerably behind all the goodies and things...when I get caught up, I get to experience them all at once. :)
Regards, Aaron
Aaron Reichow :: UMD ACM Pres :: http://www.d.umn.edu/~reic0024/ "the profit system follows the path of least resistance and following the path of least resistance is what makes a river crooked." :: u. utah phillips
On Wed, 10 Jul 2002, Kevin Fisher wrote:
Anyone want to write some ICCCM extensions for Squeak so it can become the worlds most extensible window manager? :)
Actually, a while back I was considering such a thing. Probably not a full ICCCM set to make Squeak *the* window managaer, but a handful of FFIs to allow switching X11 windows from Squeak while running another wm.
There used to be a Scheme/Lisp window manager floating around at one time... I think it was called "GWM" or something like that. It seemed like an interesting idea (although I can't stand scheme personally). Squeak-as-a- window-manager would certainly be interesting in this respect...a sort of roundabout way to get Morphs sitting side-by-side with X11 applications.
There are a couple of them:
1. Sawfish (http://sawfish.sf.net) which is quite popular as a smaller WM running on top of GNOME. Sawfish uses it's own Lispish language called rep whose closest relative is elisp. 2. GWM (http://koala.ilog.fr/gwm/) which is based on it's own weird Lisp. GWM is pretty old, hasn't been worked on in a long time, but still works. 3. SCWM (http://scwm.sf.net), the scheme constraints window manager. Based on Guile Scheme, which is a real-live Scheme, rather than a slightly weird Lisp. 4. GwML (http://pauillac.inria.fr/para/cdrom/prog/unix/efuns/eng.htm), which isn't written in Scheme, but O-Caml another snazzy functional language.
There are also a couple more primitive WMs in vaguely similar languages, one each in Perl, Python, and Tcl/Tk.
Regards, Aaron
Aaron Reichow :: UMD ACM Pres :: http://www.d.umn.edu/~reic0024/ "Like the creators of sitcoms or junk food or package tours, Java's designers were consciously designing a product for people not as smart as them." :: paul graham
- Sawfish (http://sawfish.sf.net) which is quite popular as a smaller WM
running on top of GNOME. Sawfish uses it's own Lispish language called rep whose closest relative is elisp.
The current correct link (containing an obsolete name) is http://sawmill.sourceforge.net/
Andreas
On Wed, 10 Jul 2002, Aaron J Reichow wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jul 2002, Kevin Fisher wrote:
Anyone want to write some ICCCM extensions for Squeak so it can become the worlds most extensible window manager? :)
Actually, a while back I was considering such a thing. Probably not a full ICCCM set to make Squeak *the* window managaer, but a handful of FFIs to allow switching X11 windows from Squeak while running another wm.
There was a student at Manchester who did an entire window manager in VisualWorks as a 3rd year project. It might be in the UIUC goodies archive. Just thought I'd mention it.
Ian
Wow-zers! Do you have any idea what it was called (so I can look through the goodies folder)?
Regards, Aaron
Aaron Reichow :: UMD ACM Pres :: http://www.d.umn.edu/~reic0024/ "the profit system follows the path of least resistance and following the path of least resistance is what makes a river crooked." :: u. utah phillips
On Thu, 11 Jul 2002, Ian Piumarta wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jul 2002, Aaron J Reichow wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jul 2002, Kevin Fisher wrote:
Anyone want to write some ICCCM extensions for Squeak so it can become the worlds most extensible window manager? :)
Actually, a while back I was considering such a thing. Probably not a full ICCCM set to make Squeak *the* window managaer, but a handful of FFIs to allow switching X11 windows from Squeak while running another wm.
There was a student at Manchester who did an entire window manager in VisualWorks as a 3rd year project. It might be in the UIUC goodies archive. Just thought I'd mention it.
Ian
Aaron J Reichow wrote:
I was doing just that on top of Mac OS X. The only thing I was leaving Squeak for was a web browser.
I'm pretty much in the same situation. My go at it have been trying to make a HTMLTableMorph for Scamper so at least webpage rendering will look a tad better. Latest change set are here: http://swiki.gsug.org:8080/sqfixes/2431.html
If anybody are interested in helping out in this effort let me know.
Karl
Agreed! I'm surprised at how much of my day's effort I can complete staying in squeak. On my end, though, the terminal app will need secure shell support, ssh, to be useful.
Is this on anyone's radar? Anyone already working on it? --p
On Wednesday, July 10, 2002, at 06:14 AM, Kevin Fisher wrote:
Just an interesting observation:
I've just been playing around with the lates 3.2gamma and some of the goodies that have been released of late...it seems that with a combination of Zurgle (for looks), Ian's Telnet/Pty emulator and OSProcess, you can now safely do completely away with any other desktop and work solely within Squeak (on Linux, at least).
The Telnet/Pty emulator is good enough to run any command-line utilities, OSProcess provides some really tight OS-level integration and Zurgle...well, Zurgle just looks fantastic.
Anyone want to write some ICCCM extensions for Squeak so it can become the worlds most extensible window manager? :)
Great work folks...Squeak just keeps getting better and better!
On Wed, 10 Jul 2002, Patrick Curtain wrote:
Agreed! I'm surprised at how much of my day's effort I can complete staying in squeak. On my end, though, the terminal app will need secure shell support, ssh, to be useful.
Is this on anyone's radar? Anyone already working on it?
Indeed, SSHing from Squeak would be great. Heck, tunneling anything from Squeak over SSL would be great.
I get around this pretty simply. I open up a telnet connection to my local machine, from which I ssh to wheverever I need. Works for me, but obviously wouldn't if you were under WinDOS or something.
Regards, Aaron
Aaron Reichow :: UMD ACM Pres :: http://www.d.umn.edu/~reic0024/ "the end of the human race will be that it will eventually die of civilization. " :: r. w. emerson
First, I want to say a really big "thanks!" for the nice comments several of you have made (both on and off list) concerning the telnet/pty/xterm stuff. Its motivation enough for me to continue to improve it.
On Wed, 10 Jul 2002, Patrick Curtain wrote:
Agreed! I'm surprised at how much of my day's effort I can complete staying in squeak. On my end, though, the terminal app will need secure shell support, ssh, to be useful.
Is this on anyone's radar? Anyone already working on it?
I did try rsh/rlogin. The protocol took about 10 minutes to implement (seriously: read RFC 1282 [it's 4 pages long] to see how utterly *trivial* it is compared to telnet) but the server _refuses_ the connections because it insists that the client be connecting from a privileged port. Short of inciting peole to run Squeak as root (ha ha!) I gave it up as a waste of time.
I notice that ssh is suid root (just like rsh) so I assume sshd also requires the client connection to be coming from a privileged port.
OTOH, the pty stuff doesn't care in the slightest what you choose run as a "shell". Setting the shell command to "/usr/bin/ssh login@machine" works just fine. (I've been doing just that to connect through a firewall to read my mail from within Squeak, without having a local shell in the way.)
Of course this doesn't address the case of using Squeak as "the" (only) OS on the machine, a situation in which you could legitimately expect to be able to allocate priviliged ports. But then you've got a sacred task on your hands: implementing the ssl layer in the (Squeak) SshProtocol. (Not to mention the rest of the TCP stack underneath it. ;-)
I guess an OpenSSL plugin wouldn't be too difficult (but that would be cheating! ;), but there would still be the problem of allocating the privileged port. Plus, if you've got libssl lying around then you've almost certainly got /usr/bin/ssh lying aroud too -- and we're kind of back to where we started.
Ian
On Wed, Jul 10, 2002 at 10:58:45PM +0200, Ian Piumarta wrote:
First, I want to say a really big "thanks!" for the nice comments several of you have made (both on and off list) concerning the telnet/pty/xterm stuff. Its motivation enough for me to continue to improve it.
Please do! It's great!
On Wed, 10 Jul 2002, Patrick Curtain wrote:
Agreed! I'm surprised at how much of my day's effort I can complete staying in squeak. On my end, though, the terminal app will need secure shell support, ssh, to be useful.
Is this on anyone's radar? Anyone already working on it?
I did try rsh/rlogin. The protocol took about 10 minutes to implement (seriously: read RFC 1282 [it's 4 pages long] to see how utterly *trivial* it is compared to telnet) but the server _refuses_ the connections because it insists that the client be connecting from a privileged port. Short of inciting peole to run Squeak as root (ha ha!) I gave it up as a waste of time.
I notice that ssh is suid root (just like rsh) so I assume sshd also requires the client connection to be coming from a privileged port.
Really? All my machines use OpenSSH (www.openssh.com) and the ssh client executables aren't SUID at all:
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 231132 Jun 26 18:29 /usr/bin/ssh*
OTOH, the pty stuff doesn't care in the slightest what you choose run as a "shell". Setting the shell command to "/usr/bin/ssh login@machine" works just fine. (I've been doing just that to connect through a firewall to read my mail from within Squeak, without having a local shell in the way.)
Of course this doesn't address the case of using Squeak as "the" (only) OS on the machine, a situation in which you could legitimately expect to be able to allocate priviliged ports. But then you've got a sacred task on your hands: implementing the ssl layer in the (Squeak) SshProtocol. (Not to mention the rest of the TCP stack underneath it. ;-)
Well, command-line ssh clients -do- exist for Windows...but TeletypeWindow doesn't work on Windows yet, correct? And I believe Mac OS X ships with OpenSSH as well..
I guess an OpenSSL plugin wouldn't be too difficult (but that would be cheating! ;), but there would still be the problem of allocating the privileged port. Plus, if you've got libssl lying around then you've almost certainly got /usr/bin/ssh lying aroud too -- and we're kind of back to where we started.
Ian
On Wednesday 10 July 2002 01:58 pm, Ian Piumarta wrote:
First, I want to say a really big "thanks!" for the nice comments several of you have made (both on and off list) concerning the telnet/pty/xterm stuff. Its motivation enough for me to continue to improve it.
Suggestion: is there some way to make the behavior when you save an image with an open session any better?
Like (for instance) terminating the session while exiting? Or re-starting a session of the same kind when re-starting the image?
THanks,
On Wed, 10 Jul 2002, Ned Konz wrote:
Suggestion: is there some way to make the behavior when you save an image with an open session any better?
Like (for instance) terminating the session while exiting? Or re-starting a session of the same kind when re-starting the image?
How about (on startUp) check the sessionID and if it has changed restarting a session of the same kind. That leaves sessions open across snapshot without quit, and fixes them on return from "cold" snapshot.
It's now on the to-do list.
Ian
Ian Piumarta ian.piumarta@inria.fr wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jul 2002, Ned Konz wrote:
Suggestion: is there some way to make the behavior when you save an image with an open session any better?
Like (for instance) terminating the session while exiting? Or re-starting a session of the same kind when re-starting the image?
How about (on startUp) check the sessionID and if it has changed restarting a session of the same kind. That leaves sessions open across snapshot without quit, and fixes them on return from "cold" snapshot.
By the way, nowadays you can also startUp: with an argument and thus tell the difference from load-from-disk and just-did-snapshot. That is a another way to accompish this kind of thing.
-Lex
At 10:58 PM +0200 7/10/02, Ian Piumarta wrote:
I notice that ssh is suid root (just like rsh) so I assume sshd also requires the client connection to be coming from a privileged port.
Just checked this, and I can make ssh connections from a non-privileged port. I haven't looked at the ssh protocol spec, but what little I know of it suggests that a privileged port wouldn't increase security.
It would be great to have the ability to do ssh from inside Squeak... but probably a non-trivial task.
-Martin
On Wed, Jul 10, 2002 at 07:23:25PM -0500, Martin McClure wrote:
At 10:58 PM +0200 7/10/02, Ian Piumarta wrote:
I notice that ssh is suid root (just like rsh) so I assume sshd also requires the client connection to be coming from a privileged port.
Just checked this, and I can make ssh connections from a non-privileged port. I haven't looked at the ssh protocol spec, but what little I know of it suggests that a privileged port wouldn't increase security.
It would be great to have the ability to do ssh from inside Squeak... but probably a non-trivial task.
The port thing is a restriction tunable in the server configuration. But, anyway, on linux it should be possible to give it a CAPability to bind on low ports..
Well, being on a Linux box this isn't such a big deal for me.... I can just fire up a shell in the TeletypeWindow and use OpenSSH. Cygwin will give you openssh on Windows as well, but I haven't tried to get the Teletype working there..
It would seem to me that it would be one heck of a challenge to keep up with the OpenSSH team, although a Squeak cross-platform secure shell would be very nice. ;) I used to use a Java SSH client called "Mindterm" at one time.
On Wed, Jul 10, 2002 at 08:53:00AM -0700, Patrick Curtain wrote:
Agreed! I'm surprised at how much of my day's effort I can complete staying in squeak. On my end, though, the terminal app will need secure shell support, ssh, to be useful.
Is this on anyone's radar? Anyone already working on it? --p
On Wednesday, July 10, 2002, at 06:14 AM, Kevin Fisher wrote:
Just an interesting observation:
I've just been playing around with the lates 3.2gamma and some of the goodies that have been released of late...it seems that with a combination of Zurgle (for looks), Ian's Telnet/Pty emulator and OSProcess, you can now safely do completely away with any other desktop and work solely within Squeak (on Linux, at least).
The Telnet/Pty emulator is good enough to run any command-line utilities, OSProcess provides some really tight OS-level integration and Zurgle...well, Zurgle just looks fantastic.
Anyone want to write some ICCCM extensions for Squeak so it can become the worlds most extensible window manager? :)
Great work folks...Squeak just keeps getting better and better!
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