Dear list,
it is not the problem that I can get Squeak running under Linux. But think about interested users or even programmers who want to get a glimpse of Squeak 3.9.8 according to decision which environment is best -- and of course newbies as well -- what will they get?
a.) An INSTALL-script which works. OK It is said that it is heavily recommended not to move files around. OK
b.) With the next instruction the tragedy begins: It is recommended to invoke *inisqueak*. And -- inisqueak ist missing. Ups, don't they test their packages?
c.) While reading the manpage of inisqueak it is politely offered to write a mail to the author Ian Piumarta. Great work, this site, but the address is wrong.
d.) You remember that there was a second adress in the INSTALL-file for Ian. It is wrong too..
e.) Then you try to invoke Squeak by squeak, not inisqueak. Perhaps this succeeds. Of course a message arrives with the first suggestion: Copy the image and the change file into your current directory.
To say it clearly, please apologize my hard words: Do you think it might be possible that the interested user asks himself: *Is this a hobby programmer group or are there any real professionals at work?* Sorry, but think about one who gets the first contact to Squeak while working under Linux.
Although all the effort is done by free will: Independent from that, wrong information is worse than no information. Therefore, if time is lacking, it would be better to comment nothing.
Next: The still interested user will have a look on the website and gets -- a splendid website! Great!
And there is a category: Installation. Windows -- although I never observed the slightest problems -- is described in detail. Mac as well. Linux or Unix -- nothing. *Ah, this is the point.* Bye, bye. Let us turn over to GNU Smalltalk or X/Smalltalk.
If you want to get acquainted to a highly acclaimed software like Squeak, and face these avoidable problems, which have their roots in some basic attitudes, I am afraid that it is a sign of healthy imagination to believe that Linux users always try to figure out what the *author could have meant if he would have had the time to express what he really means*.
Sorry, but I figured out that the problem with inisqueake, e.g. was reported already by a user in March, and it seems as if there has no changing taken place. I do not think that such an outstanding software like Squeak deserves it.
Regards Heiko
Heiko Schroeder heikos28@volny.cz writes:
it is not the problem that I can get Squeak running under Linux. But think about interested users or even programmers who want to get a glimpse of Squeak 3.9.8 according to decision which environment is best -- and of course newbies as well -- what will they get?
I agree, Heiko. I have fixed many of the issues you describe, but the fixes are only in the Debian packages of Squeak, not in Ian's upstream release. In particular, I worked hard so that you can install easily and just type "squeak" to get started. Matej Kosik continued that process as of a little over a year ago.
I believe there is room for a community-maintained version of Squeak on Unix. It would serve as a nice complement to Ian's release, which would remain the proper choice for people who want only code that has been reviewed by one of the best Squeakers around.
-Lex
On Wednesday 22 August 2007 11:13 am, Heiko Schroeder wrote:
e.) Then you try to invoke Squeak by squeak, not inisqueak. Perhaps this succeeds. Of course a message arrives with the first suggestion: Copy the image and the change file into your current directory.
The command to start squeak (as used in program menu entries) is 'startsqueak'. It will create and populate ~/squeak directory for you and then launch squeak in that directory. Subsequently, running 'squeak' from command line is faster and more flexible.
FWIW .. Subbu
subbukk subbukk@gmail.com writes:
On Wednesday 22 August 2007 11:13 am, Heiko Schroeder wrote:
e.) Then you try to invoke Squeak by squeak, not inisqueak. Perhaps this succeeds. Of course a message arrives with the first suggestion: Copy the image and the change file into your current directory.
The command to start squeak (as used in program menu entries) is 'startsqueak'. It will create and populate ~/squeak directory for you and then launch squeak in that directory. Subsequently, running 'squeak' from command line is faster and more flexible.
This is only true for Ubuntu. For Debian, it's "squeak". For Ian's packages, it's "inisqueak".
I believe the Ubuntu and Debian guys should work this out, and Ian should either incorporate the updates or stop posting his own deb's.
A lot of thought and hours went into the Debian script. Info on the results and on the rationale are here:
http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/5643
-Lex
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