(a) Carbon is going away... (b) Cocoa is 32/64bit (c) Ian and I have been talking a bit about what to do, nothing decided yet.

The carbon part is used for:

1) the 1/60 timer 2) file path name encoding/translation 3) apple events 4) clipboard interaction 5) Display 6) keyboard/mouse 7) menu bar 8) openGL 9) drag/drop 10) internet configuration information 11) alias support for os-9 file aliases

Other items shared by the unix os-x vm and use core foundation logic or BSD calls, but aren't 64 bit aware would be

12) Midi support 13) joystick support 14) sound support 15) UUID generation 16) Socket support

On Dec 25, 2007, at 9:32 AM, Damien Pollet wrote:

Hi John,

how much do you depend on Carbon in the Mac VM ? Do you use it for stuff besides the Displaying and UI ?

-- = = = ======================================================================== John M. McIntosh johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com = = = ========================================================================

Thanks. I can do some poking around on 10.4 PPC.

On Dec 25, 2007 4:45 PM, John M McIntosh johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com wrote:

I've uploaded these to my idisk and ftp site found via

http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com/squeak.html

they are in the experimental folder.

I know they work on powerpc/macintel based 10.5.1 (Leopard) machines.

untested is powerpc/macintel 10.4 or powerpc 10.3

On Dec 25, 2007, at 1:29 PM, Wilkes Joiner wrote:

...

I'm confused. Do I need to build these plugins myself, or are there binaries available somewhere?

Thanks, Wilkes

On Dec 24, 2007 1:12 AM, John M McIntosh johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com wrote:

...

I've build a new OSProcessPlugin (4.2.4)

http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/3349 and

a newly generated AioPlugin V2.2

http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/3384

for testing purposes. If someone can test them on os-x 10.3, 10.4 on macintel and powerpc, that would be helpful.

This means the CommandShell Sunits now mostly run (1 failure) on the macintosh carbon based VM, well at least on os-x 10.5.1 on macintel.

Please note not all of the OSProcess tests will run, some cause the VM to crash when they attempt to fork the VM since forking the carbon based VM is not allowable. Corrupts memory and crashes really fast.

-- = = = = = = ===================================================================== John M. McIntosh johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com = = = = = = =====================================================================

-- = = =

======================================================================== John M. McIntosh johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com = = = ========================================================================

Darwin colleen-moynihans-computer.local 8.10.1 Darwin Kernel Version 8.10.1: Wed May 23 16:33:00 PDT 2007; root:xnu-792.22.5~1/ RELEASE_I386 i386 i386

That would be an macIntel machine.

10.5.1 is Darwin Otter.local 9.1.0 Darwin Kernel Version 9.1.0: Wed Oct 31 17:46:22 PDT 2007; root:xnu 1228.0.2~1/RELEASE_I386 i386

a powerpc 10.4.11 machine shows as Darwin Kernel version 8.11.0: Wed Oct 10

So likely that is a macintel machine running 10.4.10

This morning I borrowed the kid's old powerbook which is 10.4.11 powerpc.

Unfortunately after loading all the changes from squeakmap I find the pipeline tests don't run. So let me drag an os-x developer environment to that machine and see if I can figure out why it doesn't work

-- = = = ======================================================================== John M. McIntosh johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com = = = ========================================================================

On Thu, Dec 27, 2007 at 11:38:31AM -0800, John M McIntosh wrote:

Ok, I did a bit more poking at this yesterday and find all the pipeline tests fail on powerpc 10.4.11. I'm not sure why, oddly it sometimes works so there must be some timing issue? In cross checking I can occasionally get the macintel 10.5.1 version to crash the VM

It's entirely possible that there are timing issues. The CommandShellTestCase tests (and CommandShell in general) use lots of Processes both in the command pipelines themselves, and in the buffered async I/O streams that are used for the pipes. It took quite a while to get this running reliably, and even now I will occasionally get test failures when running the full test suite even though the individual tests run without problems. So I would not be entirely surprised if a different combination of hardware speed and VM were to flush out one or two more glitches. Also, there has been a fair amount of discussion about patches to Delay and friends on the Seaside list, and I would not be surprised if the CommandShell test suite is vulnerable to some of those same issues.

However i'll note running the powerpc version under gdb works fine. Could it be that running as a double-clicked application stdin/stdout isn't opened and causing issues?

I guess it's possible. I don't know where those streams get redirected when running as a "normal" Mac application, but anything that affects timing and overall performance of the VM might have an effect.

One other thing that I use as an overall torture test for CommandShell is to open two or three command shell windows, and in each of them run the command "$ ls -lR /". This generates tons of I/O and window updating. If you leave these running to completion without getting a red window of death then things are looking pretty good.

Note: Use <ctl>C in the command window to interrupt the "ls -lR /" process when you get tired of watching it. Also with respect to <ctl>C events, note Mantis http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6827. My current workaround for this in CommandShell causes the copy text shortcut to be broken in a command shell, but does ensure that you can use <ctl>C to interrupt long running external processes from the command shell.

Dave